medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
And there's the further danger that the sanctimonious might well proceed
from hope to presumption.
>===== Original Message From Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture <[log in to unmask]> =====
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>You're right, I was skipping a link in the chain of ideas. Hope is a
>theological virtue because it amounts to absolute belief in one's personal
>salvation through God's mercy, Despair is a sin because it is an absolute
>lack belief in this outcome, and suicide its (Despair's) consequence and
>proof. Seems more than a touch harsh.
>
>
>Laura
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: jlkerbau <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:22 PM
>Subject: Re: [M-R] suicide
>
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>>
>> Suicide, as a consequence of despair, was/is also regarded as a sin
>against
>> hope.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jim Kerbaugh
>>
>>
>> >===== Original Message From Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
>and
>> culture <[log in to unmask]> =====
>> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>> >
>> >Alexander Murray's work on medieval suicides would doubtless be a good
>place
>> >to look for an answer, but my understanding is that suicide is a mortal
>sin
>> >where it indicates lack of faith in God's infinite mercy ie the person
>> >considers themselves beyond redemption, and thereby places themselves
>beyond
>> >redemption. It might then be that Pelegia avoided this Catch 22 since she
>> >killed herself out of personal faith, rather than due to the lack of it.
>> >The Al-Quaida suicide bombers seem to have followed a similar logic of
>> >martyrdom.
>> >
>> >Laura
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Rosine <[log in to unmask]>
>> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 10:20 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 8. October
>> >
>> >
>> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>> >>
>> >> > > Pelagia of Antioch (c. 283 or perhaps c. 300) Also commemorated on
>9.
>> >> > > June. Pelagia was a fifteen-year-old girl of Antioch, caught up in
>> >> either
>> >> > > Numerian's or Diocletian's persecution. The prefect sent soldiers
>to
>> >> > > arrest her, upon which she asked for a few minutes to put on her
>best
>> >> > > clothes. She then when upstairs and threw herself to her death.
>John
>> >> > > Chrysostom praised her courage and faith.
>> >> >
>> >> > How does *this* square with the usual prohibition on suicide and its
>> >> > definition as a mortal sin ?
>> >> >
>> >> > Brenda M. C.
>> >>
>> >> It was my understanding that by Roman law, no "innocent" could be
>> >guilty
>> >> of a death-worthy lawbreaking. Any virgin was considered "innocent
>before
>> >> the law", so it was a common practise to make condemned women (I don't
>> >know
>> >> about young boys) and girls available for the sexual pleasure of guards
>> >and
>> >> gladiators, in order to insure that the condemned were no longer in a
>> >state
>> >> of innocence. Given the choice between loss of virginity followed by
>loss
>> >of
>> >> life, or simply loss of life, the church (I believe) took the stand
>that
>> >> staying pure was sufficient reason for self-murder if death was a
>> >certainty
>> >> in any case. Later virgin saints did not face death following rape
>> >(usually
>> >> they just wished to avoid marriage), and so they were stuck taking such
>> >> measures as self-mutilation or starvation, which, when it resulted in
>> >death,
>> >> usually did not count as suicide.
>> >>
>> >> This is a quickie armchair scholar answer. True scholars will soon
>read
>> >> my words and issue much for authoritative and documentably supported
>> >views.
>> >> Right, Oh Academians?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Terri Morgan
>> >>
>> >> **********************************************************************
>> >> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
>> >> to: [log in to unmask]
>> >> To send a message to the list, address it to:
>> >> [log in to unmask]
>> >> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
>> >> to: [log in to unmask]
>> >> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
>> >> [log in to unmask]
>> >> For further information, visit our web site:
>> >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>> >>
>> >
>> >**********************************************************************
>> >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
>> >to: [log in to unmask]
>> >To send a message to the list, address it to:
>> >[log in to unmask]
>> >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
>> >to: [log in to unmask]
>> >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
>> >[log in to unmask]
>> >For further information, visit our web site:
>> >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>>
>> **********************************************************************
>> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
>> to: [log in to unmask]
>> To send a message to the list, address it to:
>> [log in to unmask]
>> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
>> to: [log in to unmask]
>> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
>> [log in to unmask]
>> For further information, visit our web site:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>>
>
>**********************************************************************
>To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
>to: [log in to unmask]
>To send a message to the list, address it to:
>[log in to unmask]
>To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
>to: [log in to unmask]
>In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
>[log in to unmask]
>For further information, visit our web site:
>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|