Interesting to see W's wanted poster in the press today - notably missing
were white people, females, and the over 40's.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 11 October 2001 10:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: An alternative to peace
Rebecca,
Further to your comments, the statement has been circulating among activists
in the Middle East as it has been translated into Arabic... but as the
convenor of the list associated with the declaration has commented there are
'obvious reasons why people in that
situation may be wary of attaching their name publicly to
political statements...
Dave Featherstone
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 10 October 2001 19:50
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: An alternative to peace
>
> As per usual, an interesting criticism, Paul, but (also as per usual) with
> no real alternatives presented. Fair enough to ask why the United States
> (not "the American people," though -- we should distinguish between a
> nation's government, even that that claims to be "of the people, by the
> people, and for the people," and the individuals that make up that nation)
> has a history of unilateral intervention in the world -- as it is to ask
> several questions not remotely raised in this note, such as why the United
> States refuses to criticize some forms of state-sponsored terrorism (e.g.,
> that of Israel or Russia), while cracking down elsewhere. But in this
> posting there are no "alternatives to peace" offered. What is an
> alternative to peace? You seem to imply the answer is no nation-states.
> But how is that an alternative to *peace*? That doesn't make any sense to
> me.
>
> Also, from a geographical approach, what I find interesting is that, after
> suggesting the idea of nation-states should be dispensed with, you go on
> to dismiss the petition because most of the signatories are "from" the UK
> and USA. Certainly most people signing the petition gave those countries
> as their present locations, but there's no way of knowing what nationality
> these people claimed. And interesting that you single out Germany (there
> are now five) and eastern Europe (now two) to indicate this isn't a
> "global" enterprise, when one could argue that having signatories from 28
> different countries (including almost as many from Ireland as from the
> USA) might prove something else.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that once again this note is long on criticism
> and short on analysis. But I thank you for pointing out the petition to
> all of us, some of whom may want to sign it.
>
> Best regards,
> Rebecca
>
> In a message dated Sun, 7 Oct 2001 8:33:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Paul
> Treanor <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>
> > You probably saw the petition/ appeal "Academics and activists call for
> > justice and peace"
> >
> > http://www.iol.ie/~mazzoldi/toolsforchange/peace.html
> >
> > It seems typical of the half-paralysed intellectual response to the
> > September 11 attacks and their aftermath. Wringing of hands, feeble
> > disclaimers, hiding behind the peace movement, platitudes - these are
> > recurrent elements of the 'academic left' response. This petition has
> > Chomsky's signature, so no doubt it will attract more support than
> average.
> > But no-one seems to know what to do. Even reading Nostradamus seems more
> > useful than this.
> >
> > What is wrong with the text of the petition?
> >
> > There is little attention to geopolitics. The present world order is
> simply
> > taken as a given. So are nation states. No alternative mechanism is
> > presented, other than political action inside these nation states. There
> is
> > no alternative geopolitics. Islamists know what an alternative world
> order
> > is, they have a clear model, Khilafa. The people who wrote this petition
> > have apparently never given the issue any thought.
> >
> > It is a 'white man's petition' - written from the perspective of the
> > western middle-class. It seeks to defend 'civil liberties' which are
> > irrelevant for many people in Africa and Asia - either because they are
> > suppressed anyway, or simply because you can't eat them. The text makes
> > absolutely no attempt to question such liberal ideals, they are simply
> > presented as self-evident norm - as are democracy and human rights.
> >
> > The present signatories
> >
> > http://www.iol.ie/~mazzoldi/toolsforchange/call/signatories.html
> >
> > are mainly from the UK and USA anyway. Just 3 from Germany, just one
> from
> > eastern Europe.
> >
> > Worst of all, there is no attempt to understand the United States, to
> > understand why it behaves in the way that it does. There is no
> > consideration of its people and its values. Work for peace, the petition
> > says. But the reality is that the American people want war. The peace
> > movement there is futile and doomed from the start. Why ignore this
> basic
> > reality? Why not start to question the American people, and American
> > values? What made a nation of interventionists? What is it in American
> > society that is wrong? Because something is fundamentally wrong with
> > Americans, and with their allied peoples and societies...
> >
> > Tony Blair used the example of Colin Powell - a black man from a poor
> > family who rose to become Secretary of State - to win support (at his
> party
> > congress) . Blair used it to express his admiration for the United
> States,
> > and I believe he was absolutely sincere in this. People find the USA
> > admirable, because it gave Powell the chance to rise from poverty and
> > oppression. But his job is to kill people, and he is personally
> responsible
> > for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. That is the 'talent' which
> allowed
> > him to rise, in the American meritocracy. Perhaps hundreds of millions
> of
> > people in the west find this admirable - and against that reality the
> > petition has nothing to offer but this
> >
> > "... talking to people: at home and in work, on trains and buses, in
> > mailing lists and chat rooms, to whoever our ordinary, everyday lives
> bring
> > us into contact with. People who know us will think differently about
> what
> > we say than about what they hear on the news, and it will have an
> effect."
> >
> > If I was the CIA, I would pay people to write this type of nonsense, and
> > circulate it. It is not just feeble and futile, it is dangerous and
> wrong.
> >
> > Better to formulate an alternative to peace, and to these peace
> movements.
> >
> > --
> > Paul Treanor
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