JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2001

POETRYETC 2001

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: 9/11/01

From:

Frank Parker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:15:23 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (197 lines)

Thank you, Erminia.
:fp

***************
Frank Parker
[log in to unmask]
http://now.at/frankshome




----- Original Message -----
From: "erminia" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: 9/11/01


> When in Europe we had to get rid of Hitler and
> Mussolini, we had the Americans and the British coming
> in our aid and operating effectively towards the
> liberation and salvation of our oppressed nations. We
> had American and British soldiers entering our
> countries, helping the civilians and the partisans in
> the strenuous task of vanquishing the two criminal
> governments and their collaborators, responsible for
> the massacre of the Jews in Germany , the
> unprecedented persecution of the civilian Jews people,
> in Italy,  and the economic and civic destruction of
> cities, industries, monuments, etc.
>
> Kundera was right in his 'The unbearable lightness of
> the being', when he brought into play Nietzsche's idea
> of the eternal return, to prospect, in a dramatically
> pessimistic way, the possible recurrence of the evil
> among civilized people, of other Hitler-s, other
> Mussolini-s, other holocausts.
> The law under which the Nazi criminals were persecuted
> was not a barbaric one, since it implied a trial with
> evidence given and in some cases these Nazi officers
> ended by dying in their homes of natural causes,  but
> to free a country is another think, and in order to
> liberate  Italy and Germany the allies had also to
> intervene on the hosting country, entering the
> territories.
>
> Now it is America concretely  being attacked at its
> very core, and the attack, being a warfare attack as
> it was, did not respect the basic ethic rules of every
>  war,  which although wicked, still imply the
> application of international conventions to defend the
> civilians as much as possible. The fact that the USA
> is a super-power does not make it immune from the
> unfortunate possibility of being targeted. I am sure
> that in the States, nobody ever wished to deny the
> possibility that America, as any other country, could
> become the target of  warfare attacks, and not to be
> subjected to declaration of war, after the equilibrium
> created by  the cold war ceased to exist . But how one
> defends oneself when one finds its country attacked
> beyond any rational scheme?
>
> The problem of these two blocks of the world is too
> ancient and radical to be solved now, and it consists,
> I think, in  the division that occurred centuries ago,
> and which was created by the fact that out of the
> Middle Age obscurantism, in the West, in our Western
> countries, we had artists and thinkers, as well as
> illuminated politicians, who introduced the
> methodology and attitude of the DOUBT, of disbelief,
> of analytic thinking. The downcast bewilderment on the
> suffering faces of the American people  and witnesses
> originates just in that, in doubt, in this mentality
> of ours, reluctant to any rooted ideas of belonging,
> estranged by any factual thought of vengeance.  So, in
> the face of these emotions and because of this
> mentality, we no longer know which is the right way to
> react and even if we are told what it is the best, we
> still need endless talking and confrontation, like
> Hamlet. And with all the negativeness that this may
> cause to our daily and present lives,  I think this is
> ultimate a quality.
>
> How can we ever reconcile these opposite cultural
> blocks, where one had to face globally the
> consequences of "Enlightenment" and the other did not
> and probably never will?
> But enough with philosophical speculation, it is my
> belief that the entire situation is due, as in the
> case of Nazism, not to a mentality caused by religion
> alone, but to ethnic anger, economic hegemony. We are
> assisting to a manipulation and abuse of human lives
> which is so fanatical, appalling and unspeakable as to
> imply also the sacrifice of their own people and
> country, their own domestic victims.
>
> Eppi
>
> --- "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > Yes, yes and yes, Frederick.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Bircumshaw
> >
> > Leicester, England
> >
> > A Chide's Alphabet
> > www.chidesplay.8m.com
> >
> > Painting Without Numbers
> > www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm
> >
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Frederick Pollack" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 2:26 AM
> > Subject: 9/11/01
> >
> >
> > > It might be worth considering that multinational
> > capitalism, though
> > > considerably, is not exclusively American; it
> > involves Shell and Sony as
> > > well as IBM, Lloyds as well as Aetna, the Bourse
> > as well as Wall Street.
> > >
> > > It might be worth considering that the Arab
> > countries are governed by
> > > variously corrupt oligarchs who are more concerned
> > with their own wealth
> > > than the welfare of their people, and who in
> > time-honored fashion feed
> > > the latter on nationalism and scapegoats.
> > >
> > > It might be worth considering that amidst the
> > images of violent
> > > stupidity that Western popular culture offers the
> > Third World are images
> > > of free individuals, independent women, and
> > self-creating youth, which
> > > are intolerable to authoritarian fanatics.
> > >
> > > It might be worth considering that for Osama bin
> > Laden and his ilk
> > > Israel and the Palestinians are merely a pretext.
> > They see themselves
> > > as involved in a war of civilizations, sworn to
> > purge the Dar al-Islam
> > > from corrupt Western influences and to return it
> > to purity - which bin
> > > Laden has explicitly equated with the code of the
> > Taliban.
> > >
> > > Let me make it clear that I condemn all bigotry
> > and scapegoating - most
> > > immediately, that of Arab-Americans.  That I
> > oppose Sharon's
> > > provocations, and Israeli settlers seizing
> > Palestinian land.  But I also
> > > oppose maniacs blowing up themselves and 20 or 40
> > or 50 - or 5000 -
> > > innocent people.  America could take a stronger
> > position against the
> > > settlements.  But if there were genuine goodwill
> > and desire for peace on
> > > the part of Arab governments, instead of the
> > convenient scapegoating I
> > > mentioned, they would long since have worked out a
> > peace that would have
> > > satisfied and benefited all parties.
> > >
> > > Let me add two things.  One: I regard all
> > fundamentalism - whether that
> > > of bin Laden, the ayatollahs, Orthodox xenophobes,
> > or Jerry Falwell and
> > > Pat Robertson - as a sickness.  Two:  I oppose
> > George W. Bush and all
> > > his beliefs and policies.  Yet I have to agree
> > with him that the events
> > > of Tuesday are an attack on civilization itself.
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager