Noah,

of course I think you are right and can do a lot even without local
support. Lots of people have in the past (its a bit more difficut and you
may not get so far but..). Part of the benefit is that just doing the study
makes one look at things in detail and that is always useful. Anyhow, I
can't remember if I pointed you towards Margarita Greene's paper on
university campuses in Santiago de Chile. This was in the last Syntax
Symposium Proceedings, and if you send me a snail mail address I'll post
you a photocopy.

Alan

>Dear John and List,
>
>First let me thank you all for your comments and suggestions.  They've been
>useful as I finished constructing my research design and have begun my data
>collection.  One of the primary points that has come out of this discussion
>so far is what is the appropriate time and level of study required to get
>dependable S/s results?  I will try to address this first issue through
>personal example right now, and then I'll ask some of my more technical
>questions about my project in a separate email.
>
>For clarity's sake, I am completing this thesis project for my
>undergraduate degree.  The university I attend has no Space Syntax program
>or classes, and my primary advisors are in Urban Studies and Anthropology.
>Everything I've learned about S/s has been self-taught and has usually
>entailed teaching my professors as well!  Alan, John Peponis and John
>O'Flynn have all suggested that S/s research project of this scale should
>really be done at the PhD or masters level.  John O'Flynn made the point
>that an adequate understanding of the nuances of Space Syntax really
>requires more dedicated study and/or tutelage.  I wholeheartedly agree with
>both of these assessments!  Given my choice, I would much rather have the
>funding, time and academic support which a PhD program would provide.
>
>Unfortunately, this isn't a possibility for me yet.  As far as I can tell,
>Prof. Peponis is the only person teaching Space Syntax here in the U.S.  He
>has given me some good advice by email, but he is busy with his own
>projects and his own students to teach.  My advisors offer excellent
>support and encouragement, but they are not familiar enough with the method
>to give me accurate and detailed advice.  Because of this, I've had to
>teach myself through reading and trial-and-error experimentation.
>
>My case aside, the broader question is can people learn and use Space
>Syntax if they don't have access to the full UCL facilities?  For my own
>sake, I should certainly hope so!  Can they learn S/s on their own, outside
>of an academic context?  Probably not to any level that would be useful.
>But if the configurational effects on human movement and behavior which
>have been measured and reported are true (i.e., not just some measurement
>error or methodological artifact), than it shouldn't matter what level of
>training you've got.  If spatial configuration -really- does exert some
>type of statistical, deterministic influence on patterns of behavior, than
>these effects will exist before and after they are measured, regardless of
>the quality of a researcher's study.
>
>Where experimental design, experience, and the art of S/s probably comes
>into play is in detecting and interpreting these effects.  I agree that it
>takes the right education to conduct a project which will accurately
>measure configurational effects, and enough background knowledge to
>interpret your findings correctly.  But I disagree with you John when you
>say that we cannot hope to apply S/s to real-life and academic situations
>without this training.  Our results 'instrument might be cruder, but we
>should nevertheless be able to detect configurational effects and draw
>conclusions for our work.
>
>In my particular case, there is no doubt that I'd be able to conduct a
>better study if I had the full S/s training.  I would relish the help of an
>experienced mentor to give me guidance and suggestions.  Actually, that is
>the reason I sent my research design to this list in the first place!  ;-)
>But without these, all we can do is email the people who know what they're
>doing, read as many articles and other studies as we can, and try and
>figure out what we're doing the old fashioned way - through trial and error
>experimentation.  The jury is definitely still out whether it will work
>with my particularly project, but I have to believe that S/s is powerful
>enough to withstand a little ignorance and hubris on the part of the
>researcher.  If it weren't, what would it be worth anyway?  ;-)
>
>What do you think?
>
>Thanks,
>Noah Raford
>
>PS - technical S/s questions in the next email.
>
>
>**************
>
>
>>Dear Noah & Alan,
>>
>>I only read Alan's response to Naoh request for advice today, though I had
>>intended to write a note after I first read noah's message.
>>
>>I am not completely sure at what level Noah is completing his study later
>>this year, whether it is PhD, Masters, post -grad or what. I completed my
>>B.Arch. last year, which you might say is the equivalent of a post.-grad
>>diploma (or a masters?-or is it just a peculiar architectural thing?!) and I
>>used some space syntax theory and attended the day course at UCL to obtain
>>the software and the training. However I was careful to limit its use in my
>>year's study, because really I don't think devoting a whole year to it or
>>basing a project completely on it would have been supported or appreciated
>>in my faculty.
>>
>>But my overall impression was, (and I don't want to be too discouraging to
>>Noah)and continues to be now that I am working in practice and wondering
>>from time to time what the application of Space Syntax analysis might be in
>>some of the projects I am working on, is that one really needs to have
>>probably done the Masters at UCL or have studied Space Syntax under or with
>>some group or tutor that has done so if one is to make any constructive use
>>of it at the level of real input into a project or real understanding or
>>insight in an academic situation. The overwhelming impression I was left
>>with is that Space Syntax is as much an art as a science; an analysis takes
>>a lot of time to set up methodically, the parameters need to be very
>>carefully drawn with  alot of background knowledge of what has worked before
>>and where the pitfalls are; and equally the interpretation of the results is
>>based on a lot of in-depth knowledge and is fraught with nuances of
>>interpretation.
>>
>>Those of us who haven't been trained in S/s cannot really apply it with
>>authority to either real -life or academic situations.
>>
>>Is this correct?
>>
>>John O'Flynn
>>Dublin


________________________________________________________
Alan Penn, Reader in Architectural and Urban Computing
Director, VR Centre for the Built Environment
The Bartlett School of Architecture and Planning
1-19 Torrington Place  (Room 335)
University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT
tel. +44 (0)20 7504 5919   fax. +44 (0)20 7916 1887
mobile. +44 (0)411 696875
email. [log in to unmask]
www.   http://www.vr.ucl.ac.uk/  http://spacesyntax.com
________________________________________________________




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