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Subject:

Re: Thinking and acting ...

From:

"Lubomir S. Popov" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Lubomir S. Popov

Date:

Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:46:15 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (102 lines)



I follow the discussion with some astonishment that nobody refers to
activity theories. The questions that puzzle our honorable community are
resolved in other scholarly domains to a large extent and there are a
number of theories that propose ways to look at thinking and acting as both
autonomous, complimentary, and composite, depending on the level of
analysis, the purpose of analysis, the goal structure of the activity
studied, and the motivational context. 

We do not need to rediscover the wheel by asking whether or not thinking is
an action. There are at least half a dozen theories about this. We do need
to go too much streetwise about language because the street is not the
brightest place in the world. Science (again, I do not equate science with
positivism) develops its own conceptualizations, conventions,
terminological systems, and communication patterns that do not need to be
accessible to the streetwise, but should have heuristic advantages in the
process of understanding the world.

Regards,

Lubomir Popov

PS  The present thread is one of the cases that show how much design
researchers depend on the legacy of other scholarly fields. It shows the
lack of understanding how to proceed when confronted with questions that
are constitute the core thematic of approached much more successfully in
other scholarly fields.  Design researchers need urgently to understand
what are the existential boundaries of design research, as well as how we
can organize the information servicing of the design process and the
development of a proper body of knowledge. Whatever we talk about, we
always crash into metatheoretical/methodological hurdles. That indicates
our field needs much more effort and time to mature.


At 04:11 PM 11/10/2000 +1100, Dr Keith Russell wrote:
>  Dear Klaus, I understand the agony of everyday langauge but I must urge
>the kinds of distinctions put forward by Christena Nippert-Eng. The world
>changes because we bother to apprehend the intentionality of consciousness
>- thinking as action allows for the shift in attention, from Aristotle to
>the present such that an action, as an outward event in time and space, was
>Aristotle's main concern in the Poetics - for us, actions have been
>re-determined as events that happen to characters with interiors, and
>events that happen in consciousness itself. This split is made evident, as
>a cultural codex, in the three traditional genres - the Epic relates to
>actions for charcters; the Dramatic relates to characters for actions; and
>the Lyric relates to identity as a constellation of sensations/awareness or
>identity as an action. For each of these there is then a related Affect -
>Kairosis for the Epic; Katharsis for the Dramatic; and, Kenosis for the
>Lyric. These affect structures, I argue, in my PhD, are the structures of
>identity possibilities, as catalogued in our culture. We
>know/act/find/determine/mediate ourselves through these forms of action as
>apprehension. Each of these affects is also indicated as a model of
>time/space/identity, and as a model of causality. keith russell 
>newcastle OZ Klaus Krippendorff wrote:  again, i am sympathetic to the view
>that thinking is a form of acting, but the statement denies the fact that i
>(we) use words to make the point, that we draw the distinction in language
>and argue accordingly. you and i can declare what we want, agree on a
>theory that asserts no difference between the two, and are convinced of the
>truth of the statement, but there are millions of people who language the
>distinction into being -- despite of our declarations. klaus At 04:44 PM
>11/9/00 -0600, Christena Nippert-Eng wrote: Klaus, Klaus (and others) --   
>Until now. Perhaps the salient distinction is between behavior which is
>observable 
>  We sociologists define thinking as a 
>   In my work, I 
>cannot prove, but I certainly argue that the ways we behave -- through the 
>objects and people we maninipulate as well as through the actions our 
>  The self-conscious 
>  Only in philosophy and 
>design classes -- and treatises on socio-biology -- have I found people 
>   (I include robotics in 
>design, by the way.) Just as the dichotomy between thinking and feeling
>seems somehow arcane to 
>me, as a sociologist, so does the dichotomy between thinking and 
>   Acting certainly reflects thinking -- at a 
>more or less conscious level, with consciousness varying across time 
>especially seen in the creation of habits and I am willing to put forth 
>  And perhaps even (gasp) that 
>acting constitutes thinking. And, despite my love of dead German
>philosophers, it was watching design 
>students draw that made me think that. Christena Nippert-Eng, Ph.D. 
>Associate Professor of Sociology 
>Illinois Institute of Technology 
>312-567-6812 (phone) 
>773-288-4712 (fax)
>   klaus krippendorff 
>gregory bateson professor for cybernetics, language, and culture 
>the annenberg school for communication 
>university of pennsylvania 
>3620 walnut street; philadelphia, pa 19104-6220 
>  215.545.9356 (home) 
>  215.545.9357 (home) 
>  [log in to unmask] 
>www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/krippendorff/index.html 
>  




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