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HERFORUM  January 2019

HERFORUM January 2019

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Subject:

Re: Plane Scrapping post WWII

From:

"Cocroft, Wayne" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:02:42 +0000

Content-Type:

multipart/mixed

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text/plain (1 lines) , image002.jpg (1 lines) , image003.jpg (1 lines)

Hi Nick, 
 
There will be some places we can recognise exclusively as Ship Breakers Yards, whereas ship breaking might just be an a time limited activity within other docks or dockyards. At Chatham dockyard they dismantled ships and there is a rare example of building largely constructed from recovered timbers.  Do ship breakers yards have a distinct archaeological signature? Or without other sources would we just recognise them as docks?  Although, often vessels might just be dragged on to a shore or bank for breaking. 
 
Having said all that I think it's important that we record all forms of historic scrapyards, dumps, breakers yards,etc, as they are all potential sources of artefacts, with in some instances a heritage crime angle. 
 
 
Regards, 
 
Wayne 
 
 
 
We help people understand, enjoy and value the historic environment, and protect it for the future. Historic England is a public body, and we champion everyone’s heritage, across England. 
 
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of Historic England unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to Historic England may become publicly available. Please read our full privacy policy (https://www.historicengland.org.uk/terms/privacy-cookies/) for more information. 
 
 
 
________________________________________ 
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Nick Boldrini [[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 07 January 2019 17:09 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: Plane Scrapping post WWII 
 
Hi Wayne and others 
 
Regarding terminology – I’ll let DSU unravel that, but what your suggesting would work. But then that perhaps raise the question is a separate term for Ship Breakers Yard necessary (extending the logic??). 
 
Based on what has been said, and a scan of 1940’s Aps (showing no planes everywhere)  I think the site I am dealing with is most likely to be the end of the line processing after the carcasses had been sold onto a civilian scrap dealer. 
 
Which in some ways is disappointing, but also helps narrow the scope for trying to find out more info about the site 
 
Thanks for the thoughts 
 
 
best wishes 
 
Nick Boldrini 
Historic Environment Record Officer 
Archaeology Section 
Heritage, Landscapes and Design Team 
Planning Service 
Regeneration and Local Services 
Durham County Council 
County Hall 
Durham 
DH1 5UQ 
Direct: 03000 267008 
Switchboard: 03000 26 0000 
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
 
http://www.durham.gov.uk/archaeology 
 
Follow us on Twitter @durhamcouncil 
Like us on facebook.com/durhamcouncil 
Follow us on linkedin.com/company/durham-county-council 
Follow us  on Instagram @durham_county_council 
 
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Cocroft, Wayne 
Sent: 07 January 2019 16:52 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: Plane Scrapping post WWII 
 
Hi Nick, 
 
Do we need a specific term for aircraft scrapyards? 
 
The scrapping/cannibalisation of aircraft was a standard function within Maintenance Units, which might involve removing serviceable items before the carcass was sold by auction to a scrap dealer. Just as some railway works, such as Swindon were involved in the scrapping of engines and rolling stock. 
 
Would the term ‘scrapyard’ suffice with a narrow term indicating vehicle, aircraft, or railway, and as people mention yards would often just deal in general scrap.  I think scrapyard would also covers dumps of wartime wrecks, for example those from the Battle of Britain. 
 
Current practice is for MoD aircraft to be auctioned off, while parts may be removed on the home station before the remainder is sold into the general scrap market.  There are also a handful of specialist civil aircraft breakers. 
 
A few years ago ‘enthusiasts’ were targeting burial pits around airfields and some at least we returning up substantial numbers of aircraft parts. 
 
As Roger notes the immediate post-war aps might be helpful in narrowing down locations and aircraft types. 
 
Regards, 
 
Wayne 
 
 
Wayne Cocroft FSA MCIfA 
Historic Places Investigation Team East Manager 
Brooklands, 24 Brooklands Avenue 
Cambridge, CB2 8BU 
 
Direct Dial: 01223 582770 
Mobile: 07831 289220 
 
We have launched four new, paid-for Enhanced Advisory Services, providing enhancements to our existing free planning and listing services. For more information on the new Enhanced Advisory Services as well as our free services go to our website: HistoricEngland.org.uk/EAS 
 
[Description: cid:[log in to unmask]]<https://b2l.bz/JDkT8J> 
 
 
 
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adams, Paul 
Sent: 07 January 2019 16:15 
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
Subject: Re: Plane Scrapping post WWII 
 
Hi Nick, 
 
Happy New Year! Yes we do indeed seem to have a gap in our terminology for aircraft wrecking yards/sites; I think this merits further investigation. 
All the best 
 
Paul 
 
Paul Adams 
Knowledge Organization Specialist 
Listing Group 
Historic England 
T: 01793 414762 
 
 
 
 
 
[Historic England Logo]<http://www.historicengland.org.uk/> 
 
We are the public body that helps people care for, enjoy and celebrate England's spectacular historic environment, from beaches and battlefields to parks and pie shops. 
Follow us:  Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/HistoricEngland>  |  Twitter<https://twitter.com/HistoricEngland>  |  Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/historicengland/>     Sign up to our newsletter<http://webmail.historicenglandservices.org.uk/k/Historic-England/historic_england_preference_centre> 
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of Historic England unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to Historic England may become publicly available. We respect your privacy and the use of your information. Please read our full privacy policy<https://www.historicengland.org.uk/terms/privacy-cookies/> for more information. 
 
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini 
Sent: 07 January 2019 16:04 
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
Subject: Plane Scrapping post WWII 
 
Hi HEROes 
 
Happy New Year to you all. 
 
Just before Christmas I received some additional information about a site in Durham which was supposedly used to scrap planes post World War II. I had a vague record of it on the HER before (based on emails from a Countryside Ranger) but the site appears to have grown 9ie bits have been found in a different area), so I am interested in trying to find out more about this. 
 
Anyone ever heard of anything like this, or know of any references I could chase up? 
 
So far I am 
 
1)      talking to the local person to pick their brains (local legend has it as a Spitfire wrecking site, with parts being sold for salvage, and metal melted down, again, presumably, for salvage) 
 
2)      talking to a friendly crash site investigator I have corresponded with before (as I have been handed some bits, so wanted to try and work out if they are from a plane, and if possible which one – which is probably a very long shot) 
 
3)      have thought of, but not tried, checking out the County Record Office, National archives etc to see if there is any information about it (I assume there should have been some sort of contract at least) – but wont be able to check these out unless I have a bit more to go on and a volunteer willing to look into it (and have one in mind) 
 
So anything other those avenues appreciated. 
 
And in case youre interested, I have logged it as a “Ship Breakers Yard”, as theres no term for Plane Wrecking yard (HE DSU – I’m looking at you…) 
 
thanks 
 
 
 
best wishes 
 
Nick Boldrini 
Historic Environment Record Officer 
Archaeology Section 
Heritage, Landscapes and Design Team 
Planning Service 
Regeneration and Local Services 
Durham County Council 
County Hall 
Durham 
DH1 5UQ 
Direct: 03000 267008 
Switchboard: 03000 26 0000 
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
 
http://www.durham.gov.uk/archaeology 
 
Follow us on Twitter @durhamcouncil 
Like us on facebook.com/durhamcouncil 
Follow us on linkedin.com/company/durham-county-council 
Follow us  on Instagram @durham_county_council 
 
 
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Help protect our environment by only printing this email if absolutely necessary. The information it contains and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are only intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may be unlawful for you to use, share or copy the information, if you are not authorised to do so. If you receive this email by mistake, please inform the person who sent it at the above address and then delete the email from your system. Durham County Council takes reasonable precautions to ensure that its emails are virus free. However, we do not accept responsibility for any losses incurred as a result of viruses we might transmit and recommend that you should use your own virus checking procedures. 
 
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Help protect our environment by only printing this email if absolutely necessary. The information it contains and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are only intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may be unlawful for you to use, share or copy the information, if you are not authorised to do so. If you receive this email by mistake, please inform the person who sent it at the above address and then delete the email from your system. Durham County Council takes reasonable precautions to ensure that its emails are virus free. However, we do not accept responsibility for any losses incurred as a result of viruses we might transmit and recommend that you should use your own virus checking procedures. 
 
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