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POETRYETC  June 2008

POETRYETC June 2008

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Subject:

Re: Divided about Prynne

From:

Roger Day <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc: poetry and poetics

Date:

Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:39:40 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (141 lines)

Ok, I re-read your emails. You didn't call PR a liar ... still, your
nascent theory lacks any weight.

Roger

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Wait, did you just call Peter Riley a liar?
>
> So actually *knowing* a guy is a few notches belong 3 random guys on
> the internets talking bullshit? I think it's you who should revise
> your dumbshit "thesis".
>
> Roger
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:46 AM, David Bircumshaw
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I'd go easy on claiming a thesis, Peter. I wouldn't know the actual
>> status of Prynne's hearing abilities, I just found these guys talking
>> on the web as if it was a commonly known fact.
>> But the Voice that I 'hear' when I 'read' Prynne, some form of
>> deafness goes a long way towards saying how I find it.
>>
>> After all, reading poetry is hearing voices isn't it, with all that
>> phrase carries.
>>
>> 2008/5/30 Peter Riley <[log in to unmask]>:
>>> Sorry if I wreck your thesis, but J.H. Prynne is not deaf.
>>>
>>> Of recent years he has become somewhat "hard of hearing", but you can still
>>> have a perfectly normal (acoustically speaking) conversation with him
>>> without raising your voice.
>>>
>>> PR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Reply-To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:04:55 +0100
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Divided about Prynne
>>>
>>>
>>> I was pondering the other day on what I really do feel about
>>> J.H.Prynne's writings, as I must confess they put me in a divided
>>> position of not knowing what I think or 'feel', now I know that he
>>> sometimes writes poems in Classical Chinese, and I'm very aware of the
>>> distance between the written and the spoken in that, so I was thinking
>>> is that Prynne is in some ways trying to treat written English as if
>>> it were an equivalent in relation between text and sound as Classical
>>> Chinese, so I decided to do some searching on the web and came up with
>>> something totally different, and unexpected. These three snips
>>> following a from a poetry discussion group called Eratosphere:
>>>
>>> <snip 1>I also wonder whether deafness affects the way he perceives
>>> poetry: the only two deaf poets I know of (Jack Clemo and David
>>> Wright) were deafened rather than born deaf, but do deaf people
>>> perhaps perceive the 'concrete' aspects of poetry rather than hearing
>>> a 'voice' in their heads?<end snip 1>
>>>
>>> <snip 2>I'm with the others, crap like Prynne's work and the
>>> incredibly overintellectual posturing that passes for criticism of it
>>> is what drove me from the academic/poetic world decades ago and turned
>>> me into a photographer.
>>>
>>> But that's neither here nor there. The reason I'm commenting at all,
>>> is that I am total deaf myself, and yet I am a metrical formalist,
>>> albeit not as formal a one as some here. For whatever relevance that
>>> has to your observations above...<end snip 2>
>>>
>>> <snip 3>Deafness: my friend became profoundly deaf twenty years ago:
>>> most of his friends now are also deaf, he says that he has difficulty
>>> in remembering what a word on the page now sounds like and certainly
>>> his speech is very obscure. When he lost his hearing in an accident he
>>> decided that the best solution was to be deaf rather than deafened. As
>>> an argument that this need not affect his love of poetry in what is
>>> now an almost forgotten language, there's Isaiah Berlin's account of
>>> meeting Anna Akhmatova who began reciting incomprehensibly: it was
>>> only afterwards Berlin learned that Akhmatova was reciting Byron in
>>> what she thought was English!<end snip 3>
>>>
>>> all from:
>>> www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum3/HTML/000239.html
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a bit different to James Keery's 50-page essay in Jacket on
>>> Veronica Forrest-Thompson and a reading of a single poem of Prynne's
>>>
>>> http://jacketmagazine.com/20/vft-keery.html
>>>
>>> Now I was for years on a group where Prynne's poetry was held in
>>> almost totemic status, but nobody ever mentioned that he was deaf. I
>>> don't know why: almost any discussion of Aaron Williamson's poems will
>>> begin from the fact of deafness. It effects radically how I see his
>>> writing. It also gives a new shade to Prynne's call for a space for
>>> innovative reading which:
>>>
>>> 'can be intelligibly active as a practice of inscribing new sets of
>>> sense-bearing differences upon the schedule of old ones'.
>>>
>>> from 'Stars, Tigers and the Shape of Words' a series of lectures by Prynne.
>>>
>>> Which is a problem for me as I am not deaf, and although I can have an
>>> imaginative perception of deafness, I can only read as if I am with
>>> extreme difficulty, and I can't take such a way of reading as
>>> normative.
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Bircumshaw
>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Bircumshaw
>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue
> She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too"
> The Go-Betweens
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue
She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too"
The Go-Betweens

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