medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Sharon,
This is getting a bit off the topic, but I'm not sure you're right about Siena.
I don't think the mendicant churches are positioned at gates, at least in any
important sense. The main gates were the Porta Camollia in the north and the
Porta Romana in the south, which correspond to the city's placement on the
pilgrimage route, the Via Francigena. Certainly the Dominican and Franciscan
churches are well off that route, outside the most trafficked and valuable
property in the city. There is no connection--as far as I know--between the
mendicant orders and the gates of Siena.
On the other hand, those gates would be logical places for beggars to gather,
because of the traffic. Also, I believe that the areas just inside and outside
those gates were associated with hospitals (for obvious reasons) and with
communities of anchorites, at least up to the time of the Black Death. These
areas of the city and the institutions/individuals living there show up in both
statutes and testaments as standard targets for both civic and individual
almsgiving.
Tom
--
F. Thomas Luongo
Fellow, American Academy in Rome, 2005-2006
Associate Professor of History
Tulane University
Quoting Sharon Dale <[log in to unmask]>:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Judging from some Italian cities, such as Gubbio, the locations of mendicant
> churches often tended to be positioned near, as in just inside, one of the
> city gates. It would seem as if one might expect to find these mendicants
> begging at the apposite gate. I realize that not all mendicant churches are
> so positioned but if one thinks of Siena, the Dominican, Franciscan and
> Augustinian churches are each near very separate gates of the city. Best,
> Sharon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hal Cain" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [M-R] beggars and saints' charity
>
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > Ann Ball wrote:
> >
> >> But wouldn't mendicant orders all be religious, so their beggins would
> >> not be of the common type of person who was just a poor person, widow,
> >> leper, etc.?
> >
> > I think that's a bit too much of a generalization.
> >
> > I agree with you that (humanly speaking) groups or communities tend to
> > favour their own; but it's hard to be in a religious community, exposed to
> > a yearly cycle of readings in the divine office and the mass, and totally
> > miss out on the message of the Good Samaritan (that *anyone* who needs
> > help should be given it; likewise, from the Prodigal Son, that mistakes
> > should be forgiven -- though Paul Chandler's contra-example from here in
> > Melbourne may give us pause; exceptio probat regulum).
> >
> > Historiographically speaking, I seem to find myself among the
> > revisionists: forget the "story" that's been told, where's the evidence?
> > How does it run? I suspect the answer is various. So the next questions
> > have to be: time? place? orders (since we mentioned mendicants)? persons?
> > For half the "medieval" period, mendicant orders didn't exist. Did they
> > make a difference?
> >
> > As for the "city gates" aspect, my general idea of medieval towns is that
> > there was a market square, or the like, from which at times beggars may
> > have been hunted out pretty smartly; but the city jurisdiction ended at
> > the gates. Therefore, outside the gates was a safer place for beggars;
> > besides, by definition, gates were points where traffic of people coming
> > into and going out from the town was concentrated.
> >
> > Hal Cain
> > Joint Theological Library
> > Parkville, Victoria, Australia
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> > --
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