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DATA-PROTECTION  January 2007

DATA-PROTECTION January 2007

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Subject:

Re: School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure

From:

Nick Landau <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Nick Landau <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:26:37 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (383 lines)

Well, if the data cannot be shared then the same questions will have to be 
asked repeatedly. That is why in the NHS there is the idea of the data 
following the patient.

I don't see where the accuracy comes into it. If the data is not there, for 
whatever reason, but including the fact of there being walls (Chinese or 
otherwise) between organisations then the same questions will have to be 
asked repeatedly and the same information be given repeatedly.

If the world was Wiltshire and every service was provided by Wiltshire 
County Council you might have a point. But even then there might be 
objections to data being passed between Housing and Social Services.

I think that people are concerned about inaccurate data (credit ratings) but 
people are also concerned about accurate data to organisations that they 
didn't realise should have access to it.

Some years ago when I was going for Information Governance posts in the NHS 
there were IG Principles (I think) on the NHSIA (NHS Information Authority) 
website. Well the NHSIA is no longer, and the Principles as such no longer 
seem to be available. It seems another NHS flavour of the month. Otherwise I 
would have quoted them.

But see, for instance,

http://www.hunts-pct.nhs.uk/documents/Publications/Policies/Operational/Records_Management_Policy.pdf?preventCache=06%2F05%2F2005+09%3A15

(http://preview.tinyurl.com/yo3jo9)

"The core objectives supported by the Records Management Policy and Strategy 
include
attention to Information Governance Principles of:

 Security, Confidentiality & Caldicott Principles
 Efficient processing
 Accurate and reliable documentation
 Effective and ethical usage
 Sharing of information that is appropriate and lawful
 Timely access in a format that is compatible with individual needs"

Nick Landau

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tinsley, Chris" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r 
aise blood pressure


I think people would prefer that the NHS, central Government and Local
Government simply got the information accurate, secure and not excessive
as DP requires and then made it available to the right people at the
right.  Then the NHS would not have to ask the same question time and
time again.  Is it to much to ask?


Chris Tinsley MSc
Wiltshire County Council


Information is the key

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Landau
Sent: 19 January 2007 12:49
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure

On the subject of the DPA requiring the organisation to keep sufficient
but not excessive data.

The principles of Information Governance in the NHS also stress this -
and it goes on that patients should not be repeatedly asked the same
questions - and therefore that the data should travel with the patient -
which leads to the concept of information sharing.

This has people then concerned about the lack of security of their data
and Big Brother.

So maybe people would be prefer their privacy and data being wrong and
inconsistent - and doctors not being able to get it when it is needed.

As usual, it seems the great British public want it both ways.

Nick Landau

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blewitt, David" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure


Section 29 is to help the police within the constraints of the law,
which this request wasn't.  I wouldn't like a college to give out the
personal details of my son/daugter to the police without consent, just
because he had a particular first name.

But to the point.

Re fingerprinting, the DPA requires us not to collect sufficient but not
excessive data.  Keeping a minmum of data is appropriate, and as you
suggest, the answer. Fingerprinting to me is excessive.

The government changes the rules as it sees fit - it could madate that
all school records be transferred to a central database in the future.
If I had a belief we have no fear of a Big Brother society creeping up
on us, I would see no problem.  I however side with the Information
Commisioner that we should be concerned about it creeping up on us.

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Ian
Sent: 19 January 2007 11:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure


As I understand Section 29 is basiclly there to assist Police?

Is the issue here that Section 29 gets proportionally more powerful as
the dataset increases in size and scope?

Is keeping less data the answer?

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Blewitt, David
Sent: 19 January 2007 11:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure


I recently had the police at our college wanting the personal details of
all girls in the college with a certain first name in the age range 14
to 18.

They didn't get it from us, but looks like they did from the local high
school.

Wouldn't be beyond the realms of possiblity they would have asked for
fingerprints if we had them, and lesser confident educational
establishments not aware of section 29 details passing them over.  No,
finger printing of school kids is over the top.

You are right though, the National Identity Register should be the cause
for concern.

If you feel strongly about the register, add your name to the 10 Downing
street petition on the matter:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDreferendum/

- and circulate it to others.

David Blewitt

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
Sent: 19 January 2007 08:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure


What I really don't believe is that schools will soon be passing
fingerprint records taken for library purposes to MI5, MI6 and DEFRA, en
masse. It's an absurd proposition. Apart from anything else, what would
these people want with schoolchildren's fingerprints? If the idea is
that they're building up profiles of UK citizens, I think the National
Identity Register should be the cause for concern, rather than schools
using your kid's prints to get Asterix books out.

Tim Turner
Data Protection / FOI Officer
Legal and Property Services
Wigan Council

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Ian
Sent: Thu 18 January 2007 15:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure

I don't think it is a question of belief - the schools are legally
obligated to declare their purpose.  Also the school network is as
secure as the school will have considered that it needs to be given the
increased value of the data with the addition of this technology.  In
theory.

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tinsley, Chris
Sent: 18 January 2007 14:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to
r aise blood pressure

I never believe officals when they say say that these things will only
be used for one purpose, the fingerprint will soon end up in the hands
of the police, MI5, MI6, Home Office, Foreign Office and even DEFRA. And
how secure is your school network.

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