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BRITISH-IRISH-POETS  September 2018

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Subject:

Re: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Digest - 5 Sep 2018 to 6 Sep 2018 (#2018-237)

From:

jesse <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

British & Irish poets <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 8 Sep 2018 13:31:36 +0900

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (639 lines)

Reuben, Is that the royal WE that you're using now?   :-)   No, I'm 
referring to all sides of the world and I think you're actually speaking for 
yourself and your own blameless actions. The last time I looked England was 
a pretty large place and the small press scene was a a large and various one 
with all kinds of editors and publishers that you can't possibly speak for. 
My opinion, Reuben?  Pay the tuition, do the time, and start a small press 
that makes real books and requires your time and your money to run and then 
get back to us.  You see I'm using a semi-royal US--it's starting to rub 
off.  :-)  Of course my observations to not extend to about the half the 
authors I published via Ahadada.

Luke:  Actually go with the notion that you're understood even at your most 
cryptic--that's the safest position to assume when you post here.  Even the 
logical notation, but you seem to have missed the very thing that makes 
paraconsistent logics paraconsistent logics.  Thanks, though, for pointing a 
great new field out.  The principle of explosion is really wonderful.  Still 
thinking about that.  Many thanks!  Jess

Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2018 23:53:00 +0200
From:    Reuben Woolley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What I've Learned About Small Press Publishing

I don't know if you're referring to the situation in the US, Jesse. I can
only speak about the situation in the UK. We rely on and are very grateful
to the small indie publishers. We know they are not rich and support their
endeavours. Once we get something published we plug it on the social media.
We certainly support the other poets they publish. In fact. we celebrate
whenever someone gets a work accepted for publication. We do much the same
for each other when we get a poem accepted by a magazine.

Of course there are exceptions, but we generally ignore them.

Reuben








-----Original Message----- 
From: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS automatic digest system
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2018 8:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Digest - 5 Sep 2018 to 6 Sep 2018 (#2018-237)

There are 6 messages totaling 1156 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Bangless Logics (3)
  2. What I've Learned About Small Press Publishing (3)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2018 11:06:23 +0900
From:    jesse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bangless Logics

Luke, at first I thought WTF when I saw your proof, now see the whole logic
of paraconsistent logics.  The bang is gone.  Learn something new everyday!
Jess


-----Original Message----- 
From: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS automatic digest system
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2018 8:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Digest - 4 Sep 2018 to 5 Sep 2018 (#2018-236)

There are 4 messages totaling 2173 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Poet's dictioanry?
  2. Question / thought on Prynne again (2)
  3. do you like my equations ?

########################################################################


On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 at 19:48, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> It's just nonsense, paraconsistent logics are means to stop that
> happening. Ah well, maybe all true
>
> Luke
>
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 01:10, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, and I guess no-one here knows much about paraconsistent
>> logic, but I'm trying to bug people at my uni into finding a logic in
>> which
>> my equations work out... ha, hope it's Ok to go on,
>> Luke
>>
>> *POETRY IN THE EXTRA-MORAL SENSE** (theory and practice in the left
>> wing**1
>> <#m_5744067851157756554_m_2741698183275262788_m_244025173454158601_sdfootnote1sym>*
>> *)*
>>
>>
>> *THESIS*
>>
>> *Someone is Olson and Olson thinks and does not think*
>>
>> *∃x(OLSON(x) ∧ THINKS(x)∧ ¬THINK(X))*
>>
>> *ANTI-THESIS *
>>
>> *Someone does not think and does not act*
>>
>> *∃x(¬THINK(x) ∧ ¬ACT(x))*
>>
>> *SYNTHESIS*
>>
>> *it is false that not everyone does not a**ct*
>>
>> *⊥ ¬∀x(¬**ACT(x))*
>>
>>
>> 1
>> <#m_5744067851157756554_m_2741698183275262788_m_244025173454158601_sdfootnote1anc>*.
>> Surrealism = Hegelian Marxism Pomo = Stalinism *LangPo = Maoism
>> Neo-Modernism = Trotksyism Prynne = Trotsky Mina Loy = Lenin Lewis etc. =
>> the Bolshevik Party Modernism = the Russian Revolution Symbolism = the
>> Commune Rimbaud = Marx The New Sentence = 1968 riots
>>
>>
>> On 22 August 2018 at 01:06, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Palmer = Steve Jobs
>>>
>>> haha, I mean yeah.
>>>
>>> Luke
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 August 2018 at 08:45, jbalizsprince <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> To the Birk, oh yes:
>>>>
>>>> John Ashbery = I'm not telling you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,  Judy
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: 8/20/18 23:54 (GMT-08:00)
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: do you like my equations ?
>>>>
>>>> Or:
>>>>
>>>> Larkin = morose knitting, whippily
>>>> Michael Palmer = Steve Jobs
>>>> John Ashbery = I'm not telling you
>>>> Ted Hughes = a hawk's eyes watching you
>>>> W.S.Graham = Whisky in the Snow
>>>> Christian Morgenstern = Das Fliegender Cleese
>>>> Seamus Heaney =Your Party, naturally
>>>> Paul Celan = Heidegger's eyes in the hawk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 August 2018 at 11:29, Tim Allen <
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes I like your equations.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Aug 2018, at 03:37, Luke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *he Left Wing of the Bolshevik Party??*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Theory and Practice*
>>>>>
>>>>> *– Strictly speaking, it is not imagination that causes action; but
>>>>> hope and fear, likes and dislikes, appetite, passion, affection, the
>>>>> stirrings of selfishness and self-love **(John Henry Newman quoted by
>>>>> Georges Sorel)*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *THESIS:*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Levertov + action = Olson*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Levertov - intellect = Zukofsky*
>>>>>
>>>>> *ANTI-THESIS:*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Olson + intellect = Olson*
>>>>>
>>>>> *SYNTHESIS in action:*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Olson = Zukofsky*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following
>>>>> link:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following
>>>> link:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following
>>>> link:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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-----------------------------

End of BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Digest - 4 Sep 2018 to 5 Sep 2018 (#2018-236)
************************************************************************

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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:55:06 +0100
From:    Luke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bangless Logics

Ha, not sure what you mean... I was confused about paraconsistent logic,
but trying to state what I meant in logical notation. Both of those things
have little to do what I am normally posting, which are just questions and,
occasionally, simple ideas that make sense to me. Sorry if it all comes off
as nonsense.

Luke

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 03:09, jesse <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Luke, at first I thought WTF when I saw your proof, now see the whole
> logic
> of paraconsistent logics.  The bang is gone.  Learn something new
> everyday!
> Jess
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS automatic digest system
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2018 8:00 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Digest - 4 Sep 2018 to 5 Sep 2018 (#2018-236)
>
> There are 4 messages totaling 2173 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Poet's dictioanry?
>   2. Question / thought on Prynne again (2)
>   3. do you like my equations ?
>
> ########################################################################
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 at 19:48, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > It's just nonsense, paraconsistent logics are means to stop that
> > happening. Ah well, maybe all true
> >
> > Luke
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 01:10, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Incidentally, and I guess no-one here knows much about paraconsistent
> >> logic, but I'm trying to bug people at my uni into finding a logic in
> >> which
> >> my equations work out... ha, hope it's Ok to go on,
> >> Luke
> >>
> >> *POETRY IN THE EXTRA-MORAL SENSE** (theory and practice in the left
> >> wing**1
> >>
> <#m_5744067851157756554_m_2741698183275262788_m_244025173454158601_sdfootnote1sym>*
> >> *)*
> >>
> >>
> >> *THESIS*
> >>
> >> *Someone is Olson and Olson thinks and does not think*
> >>
> >> *∃x(OLSON(x) ∧ THINKS(x)∧ ¬THINK(X))*
> >>
> >> *ANTI-THESIS *
> >>
> >> *Someone does not think and does not act*
> >>
> >> *∃x(¬THINK(x) ∧ ¬ACT(x))*
> >>
> >> *SYNTHESIS*
> >>
> >> *it is false that not everyone does not a**ct*
> >>
> >> *⊥ ¬∀x(¬**ACT(x))*
> >>
> >>
> >> 1
> >>
> <#m_5744067851157756554_m_2741698183275262788_m_244025173454158601_sdfootnote1anc>*.
> >> Surrealism = Hegelian Marxism Pomo = Stalinism *LangPo = Maoism
> >> Neo-Modernism = Trotksyism Prynne = Trotsky Mina Loy = Lenin Lewis etc.
> =
> >> the Bolshevik Party Modernism = the Russian Revolution Symbolism = the
> >> Commune Rimbaud = Marx The New Sentence = 1968 riots
> >>
> >>
> >> On 22 August 2018 at 01:06, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Michael Palmer = Steve Jobs
> >>>
> >>> haha, I mean yeah.
> >>>
> >>> Luke
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 21 August 2018 at 08:45, jbalizsprince <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> To the Birk, oh yes:
> >>>>
> >>>> John Ashbery = I'm not telling you
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,  Judy
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> >>>>
> >>>> -------- Original message --------
> >>>> From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Date: 8/20/18 23:54 (GMT-08:00)
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: do you like my equations ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Or:
> >>>>
> >>>> Larkin = morose knitting, whippily
> >>>> Michael Palmer = Steve Jobs
> >>>> John Ashbery = I'm not telling you
> >>>> Ted Hughes = a hawk's eyes watching you
> >>>> W.S.Graham = Whisky in the Snow
> >>>> Christian Morgenstern = Das Fliegender Cleese
> >>>> Seamus Heaney =Your Party, naturally
> >>>> Paul Celan = Heidegger's eyes in the hawk
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 18 August 2018 at 11:29, Tim Allen <
> >>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yes I like your equations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 18 Aug 2018, at 03:37, Luke wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *he Left Wing of the Bolshevik Party??*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Theory and Practice*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *– Strictly speaking, it is not imagination that causes action; but
> >>>>> hope and fear, likes and dislikes, appetite, passion, affection, the
> >>>>> stirrings of selfishness and self-love **(John Henry Newman quoted 
> >>>>> by
> >>>>> Georges Sorel)*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *THESIS:*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Levertov + action = Olson*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Levertov - intellect = Zukofsky*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *ANTI-THESIS:*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Olson + intellect = Olson*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *SYNTHESIS in action:*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Olson = Zukofsky*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the 
> >>>>> following
> >>>>> link:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following
> >>>> link:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following
> >>>> link:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
> ########################################################################
>
> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following 
> link:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Digest - 4 Sep 2018 to 5 Sep 2018 (#2018-236)
> ************************************************************************
>
> ########################################################################
>
> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following 
> link:
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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2018 15:29:27 +0100
From:    Luke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bangless Logics

So e.g. I was just drawing an analogy between The Waste Land and the
internet, their "echo chambers":

Eliot's wasteland amounts to just the tonal play of conversation of people
without moral authority. an effect achieved via a network of literary
allusions about redemption that retain their absence from events in the
poem (the typist is not a lovely woman).
The internet is a lot of people talking at once and nothing else, no
'poetry' after conceptual poetry, and no authority on what anything means.

Those two are analogous if you map "the past" onto 'authority on meaning'
and poetry onto redemption.

I'm suddenly not sure if I can be understood!

Luke

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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 7 Sep 2018 02:41:15 +0900
From:    jesse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: What I've Learned About Small Press Publishing

What I've learned about small press publishing: there are more people eager
to publish than to read books from their potential publisher. People tend to
think your operation is larger than it is, and attempt to act accordingly.
Writers tend to consider themselves geniuses and morph into Devas and
Dervishes once you've accepted their manuscript, demanding what they
consider to be the very best for their immortal works. Geniuses often
attempt to treat their publisher as a foolish rich person with time to spare
and unlimited financial and emotional resources who have no life outside of
whatever services they may render their genius writer. Or they simply
consider them robots who need to work faster. The publisher always seems to
be guilty of the sin of publishing while the Writer remains the Pure Genius
Writer. Therefore, as in any paternity case, it's ok to abandon your book
once it's been published and let the publisher with his or her vast
resources publish since that's their job, right? Therefore the Writer owes
nothing to the publisher who is having a great time selling the WORK OF
GENIUS, and therefore owes both the great time and whatever money can be
generated from that great time, to the Writer. After publication, the Genius
Writer then is free to march on to greater glory. Sadly, this is all a
self-serving myth fed to the Writer by creative writing programs and
conferences and movies made for TV. Small Press publishing is a labor of
love until it isn't. No one ever makes money doing it, or at least I never
did. Because of this Publisher As TOOL of My Genius philosophy, I began to
stipulate that the author help sell and promote any work of genius that I
might publish of theirs via readings and sales to family and friends, and
gift sales, and all of the possibilities that open up to Genius writers. I
asked that they buy an Ahadada book just to help the press and to see the
kinds of writers we publish. And I still stipulate these things. My
suggestion is that anyone interested in publishing with a small press be
prepared to HELP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE to PROMOTE NOT ONLY THEIR WORK BUT THE
WORK OF OTHER AUTHORS PUBLISHED BY THE PRESS. Does this sound like too
onerous a burden?  :-)  Jess

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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:46:42 +0100
From:    Luke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What I've Learned About Small Press Publishing

Hey jesse

> TOOL of My Genius philosophy

All small publishers provide is money, it's poetry that matters ;-)

Luke

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 18:41, jesse <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> What I've learned about small press publishing: there are more people
> eager
> to publish than to read books from their potential publisher. People tend
> to
> think your operation is larger than it is, and attempt to act accordingly.
> Writers tend to consider themselves geniuses and morph into Devas and
> Dervishes once you've accepted their manuscript, demanding what they
> consider to be the very best for their immortal works. Geniuses often
> attempt to treat their publisher as a foolish rich person with time to
> spare
> and unlimited financial and emotional resources who have no life outside
> of
> whatever services they may render their genius writer. Or they simply
> consider them robots who need to work faster. The publisher always seems
> to
> be guilty of the sin of publishing while the Writer remains the Pure
> Genius
> Writer. Therefore, as in any paternity case, it's ok to abandon your book
> once it's been published and let the publisher with his or her vast
> resources publish since that's their job, right? Therefore the Writer owes
> nothing to the publisher who is having a great time selling the WORK OF
> GENIUS, and therefore owes both the great time and whatever money can be
> generated from that great time, to the Writer. After publication, the
> Genius
> Writer then is free to march on to greater glory. Sadly, this is all a
> self-serving myth fed to the Writer by creative writing programs and
> conferences and movies made for TV. Small Press publishing is a labor of
> love until it isn't. No one ever makes money doing it, or at least I never
> did. Because of this Publisher As TOOL of My Genius philosophy, I began to
> stipulate that the author help sell and promote any work of genius that I
> might publish of theirs via readings and sales to family and friends, and
> gift sales, and all of the possibilities that open up to Genius writers. I
> asked that they buy an Ahadada book just to help the press and to see the
> kinds of writers we publish. And I still stipulate these things. My
> suggestion is that anyone interested in publishing with a small press be
> prepared to HELP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE to PROMOTE NOT ONLY THEIR WORK BUT
> THE
> WORK OF OTHER AUTHORS PUBLISHED BY THE PRESS. Does this sound like too
> onerous a burden?  :-)  Jess
>
> ########################################################################
>
> To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following 
> link:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1
>

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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Sep 2018 23:53:00 +0200
From:    Reuben Woolley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What I've Learned About Small Press Publishing

I don't know if you're referring to the situation in the US, Jesse. I can
only speak about the situation in the UK. We rely on and are very grateful
to the small indie publishers. We know they are not rich and support their
endeavours. Once we get something published we plug it on the social media.
We certainly support the other poets they publish. In fact. we celebrate
whenever someone gets a work accepted for publication. We do much the same
for each other when we get a poem accepted by a magazine.

Of course there are exceptions, but we generally ignore them.

Reuben

to 6 Sep 2018 (#2018-237)
************************************************************************ 

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