On 24 August 2010 20:28, Khem Caigan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Jake Stratton-Kent doth schreibble :
>> 1. The 'Seasons', are they really Seasonal or are the Equinox and
>> Solstice Signs the real issue regardless of climactic differences.
>> That is for example, Sun in Capricorn is the real deal, not Summer or
>> Winter. This might make matters a good deal easier, especially for us
>> non-agrarian moderns.
> Western Astrology is squarely based upon the Seasons,
> and the 12 Signs (/not/ the Constellations) are fixed
> upon the Frame of the Equinoctial and Solstitial points.
Although Tropical Astrology is the *framework* I prefer, I'm very far
from convinced that framework explains the core symbols and their
archaic pedigree. As a term Western Astrology is as much a misnomer as
Western Tradition. It starts with Babylonian starlore and its
inheritance and only becomes a 'Logy' with the Greeks....
(The stuff Ptolemy omitted that was extant in his day is an issue in
how much a 'rational' Logy it subsequently became. Its hard to see the
individual degrees as anthropomorphic entities in his writings. Skip
that for now.)
...It is then perpetuated by the Arabs; with no trace of activity in
Dark Age and early Medieval Europe. Finally - sapped of 'necromantic'
elements in the era of Albertus Magnus, and thus able to call itself
'Christian Astrology' in the time of Lilly - it becomes 'Western'.
A lot can drop out in that amount of rehashing, and a lot of new
assumptions can intrude.
Astrology has been trying so hard to be first 'Christian' and then
'Psychology' that many folks have been sold the daft idea that Cabala
underlies Western Magic because Astrology has been stripped of all the
> And when Astral/Daemonic Astrologers work with the Stars,
> we factor for their positions /within the Signs/.
yup, ditto, different issue, but shows how Tropical can remain a
useful frame (something I constantly have to argue when promoting work
with the Lunar Mansions)
>> Sorry if this is a bit sketchy, but my instinct is to really push the
>> stellar rather than seasonal aspect of this question - otherwise
>> subsequent research may well end up colliding with early decisions
>> made on inadequate data.
> Vedic Astrology/Jyotish might be your cuppa, then ;)
absolutely not - lets put it another way - do the Seasons *have to be*
the backdrop for a global - and magical - Astrology?
To which I think the answer is, no they don't - while the Cardinal
Signs are a very useful alternative. Indeed the Solar Stations of the
Year - regardless of local Season - makes a deal more sense as a start