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Subject:

Re: Harsh critics of embodied leadership?

From:

David Weir <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

David Weir <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 23 Sep 2018 17:02:39 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (263 lines)

David Weir

Hadleigh House

Main Street

Skirpenbeck

York

YO 41 1HF

01759371949

07833366773

[log in to unmask]


On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:57:06 +0200, Philippe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Joining the conversation tonight, after following it passionately. So many issues we meet so often in everyday discussions on art and organizations  ! 
> 
> I suggest to differentiate two kinds of embodiment, one referring to a unique body and the other to multiple bodies. On the one hand there is a call for universal empathy between people, for community as the big body where everyone experiments directly the sense of being human because related to others-like-me, communicating beyond words with the senses and direct feelings, through art or touch or prayer or soccer or leadership. Embodied leadership here means activating the sense of inter-connected people within the big community beyond words.
> And there are leaders embodying the awareness of so many different people within their different bodies, trying to communicate and manage their irreducible differences: this is the dialogical empathy, more related to voices and polyphonic listening  than to touch. 
> It seems that embodiment of the first kind, showing how we are all immersed into the wide body of community, is connected with structures or leaders imposing an (always arbitrary) order based on exclusion-inclusion. The second kind of embodiment suggests any order can be questioned and re-ordered differently, as no unique body includes all of us.
> Art can be on any side.
> 
> In this perspective, we could say each kind of embodied leadership is a harsh critic of the other kind. Rather than the dualistic mind-body issue we meet the dualistic opposition between order and critique, or unifying community and disparate differentiation. 
> 
> Of course both are right : only a clever combination between the two makes the world goes round. What art can also be very good at - like Ken's and Fluxus' ;) 
> 
> Philippe
> 
> > Le 17 avr. 2016 à 22:35, Arlene Goldbard <[log in to unmask]> a écrit :
> > 
> > Yes, it’s ridiculously simplistic to make such claims for mere exposure to or possession of art objects, let alone the art world. But it’s quite another thing to say that art-making and other such interactive, embodied practices can increase awareness of the importance of bringing all dimensions of the human subject into leadership (or for that matter, participation in any social enterprise). 
> > 
> > Speaking for my own work, the underlying idea is that direct participation can expand awareness, and that can lead to an expansion of empathy, and other capacities. There is much evidence for this, and I’ve written quite a bit about it. I haven’t seen anyone on this list making the point that it will make people good, which is the hypothesis your listing of evil collectors seems to be refuting. I’d like to think that embodiment (or art-collecting, or almost anything else) leads to personal virtue, but sadly, there is no evidence for it. 
> > 
> > all best,
> > 
> > Arlene
> > 
> >> On Apr 17, 2016, at 1:53 PM, Ken Friedman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Friends,
> >> 
> >> It seems to me problematic to say that art will change the way that people understand
> >> the embodiment of leadership. There is far too much evidence that powerful but evil
> >> leaders have been among the world's great collectors, connoisseurs, and patrons. You've
> >> got to wonder. Who it is that has made eight-figure paintings commonplace. Who it is that
> >> shifts money through art storage freeports? Why do so many people named in the Panama
> >> Papers have major art collections? What reason is there to believe that art makes today's 
> >> leaders any better than art made the Borgias, the slaveholding aristocrats of the Americas 
> >> (North or South), or the Elector Princes of the Holy Roman Empire?
> >> 
> >> As someone who has been an artist and observed the art world at first hand, it's a 
> >> reasonable question. I'm just saying, is all.
> >> 
> >> Ken Friedman
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> 
> >>> On 16 Apr 2016, at 04:20, Michael Gold <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Ah but THAT was my point AG
> >>> 
> >>> The poem was a response to the hyper intellectual approach to the issue.
> >>> 
> >>> It is ART that will change the way people understand the embodiment of leadership.
> >>> 
> >>> Getting people to feel who they in collaboration with those who they work with is a powerful step towards understanding the empathy needed to lead effectively.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Michael Gold, Ph.D.
> >>> Jazz Impact
> >>> 612 701 6046
> >>> www.jazz-impact.com
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> On Apr 15, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Arlene Goldbard wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Perhaps it would be useful to have a slightly less heady discussion of embodiment, in a slightly different vein than Michael has offered. Surely one of the points of this work is to enable human beings to bring themselves whole into professional and institutional settings, rather than going along with the too-common operating assumption that body, emotion, and spirit are left outside the door. When I give talks on this subject, I ask this question: What’s the worst thing you can do in a boardroom? The women generally answer first, and all it takes is one word: “Cry.” The critique of embodiment doesn’t have to be stated; it’s the default setting most of the time. Much more on this in my books The Culture of Possibility: Art, Artists & The Future and The Wave.
> >>>> 
> >>>> all best,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Arlene
> >>>> 
> >>>>> On Apr 15, 2016, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Linstead <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Waur=Worse
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On 15 Apr 2016 19:22, "prem saran" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>> Michael,
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> As a retired member of the Indian Administrative Service (which mans the top leadership positions in the Government of India), with an MBA from the elite Indian Institute of Management Calcutta as well as a self-reflexive [i.e. practising adept's] Ph.D in Anthropology from the University of California [Routledge, 2006] on the "embodied"/"somaesthetic" [vide the eponymous book by Richard Shusterman, "Thinking Through the Body", Cambridge University Press, 2012] as also high-philosophical Indic discipline of Tantra, I found your and David's responses to be the most sensible [sic].
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Prem
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> PS. What's "waur"?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> (Dr. Prem Saran, IAS (Retd)
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>   
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> From: Michael Gold <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] 
> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 10:24 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Harsh critics of embodied leadership?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Comin thro' the Rye
> >>>>>> BY ROBERT BURNS
> >>>>>> [First Setting]
> >>>>>> Comin thro' the rye, poor body,
> >>>>>>      Comin thro' the rye,
> >>>>>> She draigl't a' her petticoatie
> >>>>>>      Comin thro' the rye.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> [CHORUS.]
> >>>>>>           Oh Jenny 's a' weet poor body
> >>>>>>                Jenny 's seldom dry,
> >>>>>>           She draigl't a' her petticoatie
> >>>>>>                Comin thro' the rye.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Gin a body meet a body
> >>>>>>      Comin thro' the rye,
> >>>>>> Gin a body kiss a body —
> >>>>>>      Need a body cry.
> >>>>>>           Oh Jenny 's a' weet, &c.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Gin a body meet a body
> >>>>>>      Comin thro' the glen;
> >>>>>> Gin a body kiss a body —
> >>>>>>      Need the warld ken!
> >>>>>>           Oh Jenny 's a' weet, &c.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> [Second Setting]
> >>>>>> Gin a body meet a body, comin thro' the rye,
> >>>>>> Gin a body kiss a body, need a body cry;
> >>>>>> Ilka body has a body, ne'er a ane hae I;
> >>>>>> But a' the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Gin a body meet a body, comin frae the well,
> >>>>>> Gin a body kiss a body, need a body tell;
> >>>>>> Ilka body has a body, ne'er a ane hae I,
> >>>>>> But a the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Gin a body meet a body, comin frae the town,
> >>>>>> Gin a body kiss a body, need a body gloom;
> >>>>>> Ilka Jenny has her Jockey, ne'er a ane hae I,
> >>>>>> But a' the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.
> >>>>>> Michael Gold, Ph.D.
> >>>>>> Jazz Impact
> >>>>>> 612 701 6046
> >>>>>> www.jazz-impact.com
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Neelands, Jonothan wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Maybe we need to distinguish between the body that is the leader and the use of the body in leadership and strategy. Define different senses of the term embodied leadership so that we can see what people might be against?  J 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Jonothan Neelands PhD, DSc, FRSA.
> >>>>>> Associate Dean Creativity | Warwick Business School
>>>>>>  | University of Warwick
> >>>>>> Research Lead | Executive Bid Committee Coventry 2021
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>  WBS Create: Think, Dream, Act Differently
> >>>>>> Coventry City of Culture 2021
> >>>>>> <1F25B2CF-6EFD-4F6D-9174-4E4C4FA750B3[45].png>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On 15 Apr 2016, at 12:20, P Ibbotson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>> Jolly interesting question. Might be that "embodied leadership" is a bit of a tautology. You can't have leadership without there being a body to do the leading.The same might be said of friendship, so difficult to argue against.
> >>>>>> I have had conversations with data analysts and quants who say they would be happy to have algorithms making the important decisions because they are free from emotional and cognitive bias and can access vastly more data to collect evidence for their choices. They are comfortable with robot leaders but not really "against" embodied ones. Processes like six sigma and 360 degree feedback could be viewed as attempts to make leadership more detached and mechanical to avoid the dangers of narcissism and despotism that come with a focus on the "embodied self" as the leader. You could also argue that "embodied leadership" is inherently anti-democratic and puts the acts of the leader above the decisions of the collective arrived at through debate. 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Piers Ibbotson
> >>>>>> Principal Teaching Fellow 
> >>>>>> Warwick Business School
> >>>>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> From: Aesthetics, Creativity, and Organisations Research Network <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Matzdorf, Fides <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2016 09:21
> >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>> Subject: Harsh critics of embodied leadership?
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>> Dear AACORNers,
> >>>>>> Do you know of any explicit opponents to 'embodied leadership' and 'embodied leadership learning' concepts? I've searched, but can't find any... 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Or would 'opposition' in this case simply amount to 'ignore that lot'?   ;)
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I'm relatively new to this field, so forgive my ignorance...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> All the best,
> >>>>>> Fides
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>>>> |  (Ms) F Matzdorf   MA  FHEA
> >>>>>> |  Senior Research Fellow
> >>>>>> |  Sheffield Business School
> >>>>>> |  Sheffield  S1 1WB
> >>>>>> |  Tel. 0114-225 3892    
> >>>>>> |  E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>> |  https://shu.academia.edu/FidesMatzdorf
> >>>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>> 
> >>>> ___________________________________________________
> >>>> “Racism is worse than idolatry. Racism is Satanism, unmitigated 
> >>>> evil. Few of us seem to realize how insidious, how radical, how 
> >>>> universal an evil racism is. Few of us realize that racism is man’s 
> >>>> gravest threat to man, the maximum of hatred for a minimum of 
> >>>> reason, the maximum of cruelty for a minimum of thinking.” 				
> >>>> 
> >>>> 						Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
> >>>> ___________________________________________________
> >>>> Read about: The Culture of Possibility: Art, Artists & 
> >>>> The Future and The Wave!
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>   Arlene Goldbard • www.arlenegoldbard.com • 415-690-9992
> >>>>      Chief Policy Wonk, U.S Department of Arts and Culture
> >>>> 			2015 Purpose Prize Fellow
> > 
> > ___________________________________________________
> > “Racism is worse than idolatry. Racism is Satanism, unmitigated 
> > evil. Few of us seem to realize how insidious, how radical, how 
> > universal an evil racism is. Few of us realize that racism is man’s 
> > gravest threat to man, the maximum of hatred for a minimum of 
> > reason, the maximum of cruelty for a minimum of thinking.” 				
> > 
> > 						Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
> > ___________________________________________________
> > Read about: The Culture of Possibility: Art, Artists & 
> > The Future and The Wave!
> > __________________________________________________
> >   Arlene Goldbard • www.arlenegoldbard.com • 415-690-9992
> >      Chief Policy Wonk, U.S Department of Arts and Culture
> > 			2015 Purpose Prize Fellow
> > 

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