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Dear Jim, Dog help you, it might be that the source of your "Hitler & the Lance" stuff was an unrelieveably hokie book--which I know only from mass-marquet pb copies which walked into my first store-front by the score in the late '70s: Trevor Ravenscroft(couldn't *possibly* be a nom de lance)'s _The Spear of Destiny; the occult power behind the spear which pierced the side of Christ._ New York, Putnam [1973]. LC Call No.: DD247.H5R373 1973 I now note from the LoC entries that, like most things truely loopie, there was an English edition published the previous year (London, Spearman [sic], 1972.) *And*, there appears to be a recent sequel I've not yet seen, which sounds like a must read for any serious Ravencroft fan: _The mark of the beast : the continuing story of the Spear of Destiny._ / Trevor Ravenscroft & Tim Wallace-Murphy. York Beach, Me. : S. Weiser, 1997. LC Call No.: BF1442.H64R35 1997 No doubt it was your knee-jerk instincts for scholarly self-preservation which led you to supress all memory of the source of your knowledge. Truth be known, I took a long look at the Ravencroft opus myself at the time it was _au courant_ and found it *just* interesting enough to dig up the Art Bulletin article and to keep an eye out for other opii dealing with the "occult" in the Third Reich. But, I haven't kept up with the literature, as I'm trying to quit. The general conclusion I came to--which I still perversely hold to--is that this question is like a few others (e.g., the labyrinth at Chartres; the shroud of Turin; Glastonbury Tur) wherein a kernal of interesting, serious, historical Truth has become so incrusted with a shell of marvelously hokie chaff as to--in some cases--scare off up front any serious scholar who might like to take up the question. *Was* there something more to the labyrinth at Chartres than a random set of pretty stones laid down as a lark? I believe that, obviously, there was, though what *exactly* that something might be, I really haven't a clue. *Is* the shroud of Turin *really* a 14th c. French artifact? *All* my art historical training and instincts tell me that such a proposition is, on its face, simply ludicrous. But what this curious object *is*--that I cannot say, in spite of quite a bit of serious reading around in the serious literature (yes, such exists on this subject). *Was* there something just a *bit* more envolved in Hitler's rise to power than a homocidial sociopath simply opportunistically manipulating pure historical accident to gain near-absolute power in what was (arguably) the most "civilized" country on the face of the planet? Mmmmmm. could be, i spose. duh. The fact--if it is indeed a *fact*--that Hitler had the lance moved from Vienna (or even if he simply took any cognizance of it whatsoever) I take to be most interesting. What it might mean or signify.... Best to all from here, (and special thanks to dear O. for his Easter gift to the list. Now, how the devil do we work out those pesky epacts?) Christopher [log in to unmask] wrote: >To tell the truth, I really can't remember where I got the reference to Hitler and the Holy Lance.....> ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%