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Dear all Like Keith the issues surrounding Hoddle (other than how bad a manager and motivator he was) that irritated me was the constant references to his charity work, the use of the term 'these people' and also 'their families', the phrases 'disabled people' and 'handicapped'. The more I heard this not only from him but his supporters the more I felt that he had a problem with disability and the more I believed he did say what he said. I have to say I was dissappointed not to see others in the 'movement' or industry as I often call it, not pick up on the bigger hole hoddle was digging. Mark asked for an irish person to comment on the catholic church and irish references to people and children with disbilities as 'children of God'. As a recovering catholic and with a little Gaelige I can confirm that the church does indeed promote the use of the term 'children of god'. There are terms in irish for it and up till recently (still in rural areas) children with disabilities are refered to by religious as 'Gods special children' and parents are told that they have been blessed or have been given a cross to bear for a special reason. This of course is an organisation which brings thousands of children and Adults to Lourdes for 'the cure'...(been there, done that, have the roasary beads...) Don't mean to offend those with strong religious beliefs but having both worked with catholic organisations in the past who had appalling attitudes towards people with disabilities and then having had to endure catholism's reaction to my disabilities, I have learnt the hard way. Much has changed in Ireland in recent years but the religious are still very heaviliy involved in running services for people with disabilities, and some othe attitudes described above are still there. Yours Suzy Byrne %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%