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Sorry to bore you all, but here are some further thoughts on this topic. A little while ago Peter Claughton encouraged us all to adopt/develop new methods of research (without enlightening us as to what they might be). As his response on early smelting and mining in Yorkshire shows, perhaps he should adopt a more hypothetico-deductive approach. He claims that we are restricted to three snapshots of the mediaeval industry and thereby ignores many more snippets of evidence which can be used to built up a model for what was going on. Before pooh-poohing this, remember that ten years ago this approach led me to point out that customary mining law did not have to be imported or imposed by Derbyshire miners and that evidence pointed to it having been used much more widely in Yorkshire. This was met with incredulity, but, a few years later, Les Tyson turned up a set of laws used by Marrick Priory to regulate its mines at Hurst. I have no problems with David Kiernan's model for 16th century Derbyshire, but I do resent unquestioning (ie Derby-centric) attempts by others to transplant it. What David describes is a very mature phase of a long established industry and there is nothing to suggest that Yorkshire, or any other county, approached the scale of operations in mediaeval Derbyshire. If it is wrong for me to question the differences (with a moderate knowledge of the subject), then it must be an academic folly to impose an inappropriate model. I can see little point in comparing experience in the silver industry - as this metal was of negligible importance in Yorkshire and (I believe) Derbyshire. Apart from a few ounces at Grassington and claims for minute mines in the Forest of Bowland, I have yet to see a reliable reference to silver production in the Yorkshire Dales (certainly south of the A66). There are indications that the lead industries of Derbyshire, Yorkshire and the North Pennines were different. Not least are the intriguing sites identified by John Pickin in the last area. With the possible exception of Grinton smeltings and another site near Marrick, similar sites appear to be absent in the other two areas. What about the Mendip too? Lead mining in mediaeval Yorkshire was dominated by the monasteries. There is plenty of evidence of their involvement in and organisation of other industries (iron-making, potting, glass making quarrying etc etc). We know that they smelted at bales, but there are also early references to a smelt mill near Pateley Bridge and another near Kettlewell. Fountains Abbey had major iron working furnaces (with water-powered bellows) near the first of these and was quite capable of applying this technology to lead smelting. This alone points to a significant difference from the Kings Field experience in Derbyshire. Why is it that Lawrence Barker has been able to identify almost as many bales in Swaledale and Arkengarthdale as there are boles in the whole of Derbyshire? Their distribution is also radically different. There is no evidence that a system of ore-buyers cum merchant-smelters, such as the one described by David Kiernan, evolved in Yorkshire. On the contrary, everything points to the mineral lords keeping control of smelting - which is a much better way of regulating an industry comprised of small, dispersed production units. As for when slag furnaces/hearths (the term blackwork oven is an alien one) were introduced into Yorkshire - I have no idea, but vitreous slags were found at many of Lawrence's sites. This suggests that all of them either worked after Peter's tentative early 15th century date or that he may have to think again on that one too! Mike Gill -------------------------------- Mike Gill [log in to unmask] Northern Mine Research Society -------------------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%