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At 09:01 1/16/99 EST, you wrote: >....I think Descartes would have had little difficulty in telling us what >'science' deals with. He would say 'science' deals with the physical side of >existence, leaving only the 'spiritual' and 'mental' outside its scope.... >John van Wyhe Having heard from Descartes and van Wyhe, the time is opportune to poll some other thinkers: "To record nothing unclear in this research, we built an instrument by which we could observe as accurately as possible how much and by how great a distance from the zenith on the great circle through the moon and the horizon's poles the moon displays a parallax" Almagest, Book V, Chap 12, Ptolemy. (Astronomy, as an observational science) "An iron wire passed through a suitable piece of cork, or a needle poised on a point or mariner's compass, is set in motion when a lodestone is brought near it..." De Magnete...Book II, Chap 16, Gilbert. (Geomagneticism, observed with a model) "Simplicio: ...this would be the proper moment to introduce one of those experiments - and there are many of them, I understand - which illustrate in several ways the conclusions reached. Salviati: The request which you, as a man of science make, is a very reasonable one..." The Two New Sciences, Third Day, theorem 1, proposition 1, corollary 1, Galileo (Experimental Mechanics) "As we are about to discuss the motion, action, and use of the heart and arteries, it is imperitive on us first to state what has been thought of these things by others in their writings, and what has been held by the vulgar and by tradition, in order that what is true may be confirmed, and what is false set right by dissection, multiplied by experience, and accurate observation." An Anatomical Disquisition... Chapter 1 Harvey (Experimental anatomy) I should terminate this grand tour of a thread respecting experimental verification in science which reaches us from two thousand years of scientific thought with a final rejoinder from another Cambridge scholar: "Now although it be true, and I know it well, that there is an intercourse between causes and effects, so as both these knowledges, speculative and operative, have a great connection between themselves yet because all true and fruitful natural philosophy hath a double scale or ladder, ascendent and descendent, ascending from experiments to the invention of causes, and descending from causes to the invention of new experiments..." Advancement of Learning, Book 2, Chap VII, para 1 Bacon. (general epistemology) I will however forebear to quote from Descartes (who held he created a new science from consideration of the elements of arithmetic and geometry) on the grounds that Math as a science is to some extent still controversial. Moreover, despite John's claim that Descartes excluded only the spiritual from the purview of science, Renartus was in fact able to come to firm conclusions as to the existance of God based on his mathematical and logical considerations.... Brian brian whatcott <[log in to unmask]> Altus OK %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%