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Doug, A fascinating and well thought through tour of the issues. I like the argument that the proof of a mind is the ability to choose against oneself. (Dostoevsky, I think raised that one.) I share your view that mind's are not rational, nor, going a step further, completely logical. But it is only a matter of time before we perfect the machine and display (write) its faults along with the rest of us. The Turing test and all the tricks of the AI trade are but small stepping stones on the path of evolution, and our future is firmly mapped in the bitstream of life (hee hee). Like the BBC, we're going digital. By the time you're seventy you'll be uploading your consciousness to the world wide web and touring the galaxy as a new consciousness. The spirituality bit I fear is just a touch of dyspepsia that we all get over ;-) . We're not there yet, but give us a few more years. Still, we are evolving into machines I suspect. Bodies are rather clumsy and if we are to colonise the universe (and we will) we have to get rid of them or gravity will take its cumbersome toll. -- All the best, Chris ======================================================================= Christopher Emery http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/1664/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%