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Dear all, Picking up on a few points amidst many good ones. I'll mind my manners next time I get impatient or bored, and offer a more considered and considerate tone. Jezzer will survive my quip at his firm place in history. He needs to get out more, though. Like Doug, I don't belong in any camp and wouldn't want to, unless it was the read as opposed to the unread. Of course not belonging can be a strength, but for the young it can be stifling, which is where this list can have real meaning. I don't really care to defend the innovation of the poets I read. I don't think the list would benefit from me explaining why I like reading someone on the bog anyhow. My passions are not fixed either (depends on what I've been eating). On the simplest level we mustn't confuse difficulty with worth. Nor value the neglected just because they are neglected. There is more important work at hand. I'd lie more energy spent on the present than retrieving the past. Our versions of innovation are too complex to explain, and Doug's caution on the value of such terms is pertinent. I can't bring myself to censor the poets I listed. They _should_ be read. Everyone should get their chance. Some will continue to nurture readers. Others will not. I'm not in the business of instructing anyone. I'm in the business of reading and writing. I think my critical faculties lie around whether something is of use to me as a poet. Selfish that, but I'm not quite a lay person. Even less a critic. If we want to have an impact, we must address these (and other) poets and help them grow. Surely we can agree on that. How does this list help nurture young poets? What is the role of the poet in our society? How should poets live? What advice can we offer? I think Doug's challenge is a truly refreshing one. It is social and responsible. However, many of the young have no sympathy with such notions. Some would argue that it is the job of the poet to detroy society in order to rebuild it. The English have trouble accepting their place in Europe, so it is unsurprising that internationalism is cause for concern. As a culture, we are at the long tail end of a retreat from the globe, only to discover that the globe has pursued us in to our living rooms and overtaken our lives, our livelihoods. Identity is characterised by our own isolated narratives. When societies and cultures have been detroyed, the poet can help build new ones. Or wrestle with the dust. Let us say that, for me, the young are engaged in that dialogue, whilst many of our forebears have retreated into semantics and a poetry born of theory. And influences . . . well mine, like most of yours, are washed in blood and money. They involve birth and death and getting by. I don't mind being told off for citing Artaud and Tzara, (neither are influences) through such events one learns. I am taking Doug's hand and anyone else's. I want to make sense of what I am doing and I want to think through my direction. I need guidance. These are important times. There's a vacuum and I need air. Chris Emery %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%