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In response to the comments from Martin forwarded by Mary Norowzian of Kingston University Good to see the discussion going - it is worth replying to some of the comments on a general basis; 1) In general standing orders for the security staff are that they do not re-enter a building in alarm, and would they if it was on fire - I once asked a Water employee what steps he would take in the event of a Chlorine Leak at a plant in the centre of London - he replied, 'Three bloody great big ones out the door' and we thereforedesigned our safety procedures on the principle of what will happen in a fire, not a general building alarm. Great if your people will go back in, but we find a growing tendency for this not to happen. 2) Communications - BS5588 Part 8 clearly states the communication requirements for an evacuation lift with a clear identification of which storeys are occupied by disabled people an in need of evacuation. We have extended this to all refuge points - there is no NEED to install these if you are happy to send people round to check ALL possible refuge areas. If you EXPECT a disabled person to sit in a refuge with NO communication then I am affraid you overestimate the panic response to a fire. The communication system does two things - informs the evacuating authority and reassures the occupant to stay in the area do not block the escape path for others. 3) Location - we normally place the control/communications point next to the fire alarm panel, with repeaters to other panels if necessary - whereever the evacuation is co-ordinated from is the most useful. 4) Cost - if the correct amount of signage, smoke protection and preferably a communications system is installed then stlg 1000 is easily reached We would also recommend drop down smoke seals under the doors - these effectively stop the biggest killer, smoke, but allow easy use of the doors in normal use. Naturally this is a young area of work - the BS is now nearly 10 years old and the features that I am discussing are the ones that we have put together in consultation with disabled people, 10 years of installation experience and both a psychological fire response background and design experience - I am afraid that I will always exceed the minimum standards specified in the BS as I have seen refuge designs, in compliance with the BS that would NOT work - and regard these as a waste of time - people who know us well know we feel the same about BS toilets too! i hope this adds to the discussion! Regards James James Holmes-Siedle Director All Clear Designs Limited 3rd Floor, Cooper House 2 Michael Road London SW6 2ER Tel 0171 384 2950 Fax 0171 384 2951 email [log in to unmask] Cserve 100451,3571 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%