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------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: MARTIN LARMOUR <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Kingston University To: Mary Norowzian <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:50:06 +0100 Subject: Re: evacuation arrangements Priority: normal I forwarded the input from James Holmes-Siedle to our University Safety officer. I am now passing on his comments. The discussion is helping to focus ont the issue so many thanks, Mary Norowzian Kingston University Mary, Thanks for the note, please find my reply. Feel free to paste it into your discussion group. Martin. _______________________________________________ james Holmes-Siedle wrote: The management (Health and Safety) > should also sign each scenarion and state that they are happy with the > arrangements - especially important is dispelling the myth that security is > going to enter a building in a state of alarm, or worse still, on fire - > they won't. With respect, we have very large buildings and our security people will often enter a building with the alarm going off for a mixture of reasons. There is no myth to this, this is working procedure. This works with the full approval of local fire brigade. > Are of Refuge > These MUST be designed to BS5588 part 8 and then the discussion about pagers > becomes irrelevant because a proper refuge will have communications > facilities built in - from the simple push switch to two way speech - this > being preferred. I would suggest he is mistaken. BS5588 part 8 says nothing about built-in communications facilities for refuges, and I am taken aback that he is suggesting c.one thousand pounds to set one up. Section Four of the BS (Construction and Fire Warning Systems) effectively recommends half hour fire doors (FD30s) except lift landing doors which should be FD30 doors, ensuring that doors have a self closing device (but not one with a stand-open action). It goes on to qualify the sorts of doors and hinges,handles etc etc ie. lift landing doors to evacuation lifts should be automatic. At best, the BS appears to suggest that there might be a two stage alarm ie.one with an alert signal giving disabled people an opportunity to move before the congestion likely to arise in a general evacuation but it is very loose on this. Since I haven't been party to the wider conversation, forgive me if the following has already been pointed out. I would refer you to IP16/91 the BRE Information Paper "Assisted means of escape of disabled people from fires in tall buildings"(GME Cooke) who identifies the principles undelying BS5588 (8). These are Hazard, Refuge, Vertical means of Escape and Place of Safety. Cooke clearly states that the refuge should be separated from a fire by fire-resisting construction having at least 30 minutes of fire resistance. Refuge doors should limit the passage of smoke, using for instnace, flexible edge seals. The refuge should be capable of accomodating at least one wheelchair-bound person and should be placed next to an escape stairway or an evacuation lift. The refuge can be one of the following. i) Either of two compartments created by a fire resisting separation, each of which is a refuge from fire in the other. ii) A landing of a protected stairway large enough to accomodate a parked wheelchair without obstructing the stairway. iii) A protected lobby to a protected stairway having landings too small to accomodate awheelchair without causing obstruction. iv) A protected lobby to a protected evacuation lift in which the protected lobby is capable of accommodating at least one wheelchair. Please note the lack of reference to communications systems or other bells and whistles. However nos. (ii) and (iii) are the options we plump for. The BS does extend the options on lifts - but these are not to be confused with refuges. Several other points in passing. Where would a two way system go to if the building is entirely evacuated ? All mobile people, of whatever disability should evacuate the building, not sit in refuges. Mobility impaired people alone should use refuges in conjunction with clearly understood procedures. Regards, MJL. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%