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Dear Robin, I rushed over the details and blush at my "surprising and exciting and surprising and..". No, the "discussion" with the scientist and artists of various disciplines wasn't actually primarily verbal. It was physical. The workshops, as I said, used performance as the means. This probably conjures mimetics, which is also quite opposite to the tenor. Performance is for me not a centre of activity but a frame of time and space within which what happens is the performance. If nothing happens, that's the performance. But there's no nuthin. Even then the frame happens, and the incidental. The frame is up for grabs. Both time and space can be defined according to whoever. Definitions will be understood multifariously and accepted ditto. Beyond this point I could only be anecdotal (verbal) about on this discussion list, but basically it happens at all sensory levels and as many aesthetic ones as you like. There's discussion too, but the best points are made in the choice of frames for the next session. Missing each others' points happens too, but then you have to learn to speak each others' languages. Or talk about something else. Sometimes more fruitful. As in the Theatre of Mistakes, the clashes are where it starts, not stops. Besides, communication in many ways IS the point. Science may seem discursive to a writer but actually it's a way of approaching matter. The anecdote about Madeleine in the workshop is that I had been framing by having the observed and the observer, not necessarily outside the observed. She trounced my supposed thoroughness by having the observer BEFORE the observed. And re artists whose work resists being seen whole, Joel Fisher has done a series of bronzes, of which the far side is unguessable from the one you're looking at, not simply a matter of walking around it but, especially given the series, almost hard to remember from the otther side. Interestingly, they were made by his imagining what 3-dimensional object an abstract line-drawing was a drawing of. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%