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I was horrified by yesterday's treatment of a new member to the list, the knowing jokes at the expense of the member on the subject of Bonnefoy, TLS, etc., .... I have spent, and spend, a considerable amount of time trying to introduce new readers to the kinds of poetry dealt with on the list. This happens through my work as a teacher, reviewer, readings organiser,writer of articvles, and poet, and it is necessary to show some respect if you expect that to come back, in any form. I'm not just musing on etiquette, but trying to see how we deal with a problem of 36years neglect of the viable poetries in this country. Helen's observations are astute, and pertinent. There are some spectfic rejoinders to her though. As regards SubVoicive (a reading series started in 1980 by Gilbert Adair, and now chaired by Lawrence Upton): surely that appears enough on the list not to put all the details agian, every time. There is a practical problem about how much we can assume a new or casual lurker to know, but we can't keep returning to first pricniples with every posting. But perhaps the suggestion on one of today's more contrite messages from a regular that lurkers...........................................................................................................................................................and here a man wants to look at my machine, so I'll stop for a while. Robert Sheppard %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%