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------------------------------TEXT-OF-YOUR-MAIL-------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:55:04 -0400 (EDT) > From: Richard Landes <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: crusading love > To: [log in to unmask] > cc: [log in to unmask] > Reply-To: [log in to unmask] > Sender: [log in to unmask] > > On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, MG. Bull wrote: > > > With reference to the suggestion that Francis represented a vision of > > non-violent Christian ethics in contradistinction to crusading thought, I > > recommend Christoph Maier, Preaching the Crusades: Mendicant Friars and the > > Cross in the Thirteenth Century (Cambridge, 1994), who argues very cogently > > that the Franciscans were sympathetic to crusading from the early days. > > i will track it down. in the meantime, let me ask the following: how > early? and which Franciscans? we certainly know what Francis' idea of a > crusade was; and we also know how quickly his teachings became the focus > of disputes and his followers fell away from some of the more radical > aspects of his teachings. > > > More broadly, Elizabeth Siberry, Criticism of Crusading (Oxford, 1985) is > > instructive: it is significant that the overwhelming majority of contemporary > > criticisms of crusading were NOT root-and-branch, but along the lines of > > good idea but could do better. > > again, i would note: 1) it is hard to argue with success (there may be a > parallel here with the fight in the early church between martyrs and > apologists... altho the m's clearly despised the arguments of the > apologists, over time, the a's made such significant gains that the m's > position -- not their relics -- became marginalized and eventually > ridiculed). 2) those who are willing to go into print on the subject > specifically are most likely going to conform to the general consensus > that this success is a (God-)given. ...as opposed to a teaching which > implicitly criticizes root-and-branch, like Francis'. the rapid approval > of (some, prominent) Franciscans despite the example laid down by Francis > -- which in fact succeeded remarkably, but only for the madmen of God -- > is a good example of how quickly the radical critique oxidized upon > exposure to "reality". > > rlandes > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%