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Well we could always go for capitalism. Such a success. Then there is vamping up the welfare state a la steady state economy theories. Well we have all seen how well that has been working out since the seventies. Or maybe democratic socialism is the answer we have all been waiting for, such a triumph in Venezuela lately. Terry Leahy University of Newcastle Humanities and Social Sciences Callaghan Drive 2308N NSW, Australia Email: [log in to unmask] Phone: +61 419418841 Website: www.gifteconomy.org.au New Book 2022: The Politics of Permaculture (Pluto Press) ________________________________ From: A forum for critical and radical geographers <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Stefano Portelli <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, 2 May 2023 5:32 PM To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Why Blowing up Pipelines will not Solve the Climate Crisis Please, at least on May 1st, let's not buy in the propaganda that anarchism=chaos. Anarchism is a scientific social theory with over two hundred years of history (and two centuries of bad press) and enough research work, as not to talk about it through what 'comes to mind'. If I read about climate change and what comes to my mind is that we had 1 week of cold weather now in Rome, it would be bad science to reach the conclusion that the world is not warming. Let's don't do the same with anarchism! Same with what you call 'Law of the mob'. We now know how elite intellectuals have manufactured moral panic about 'mobs' since the early XIX century. We have to know the meaning and the story of the words we use. Here's a book on forms of anarchism that, in some specific places and time, worked. I contributed with a chapter on a Barcelona neighborhood. They were obviously all crushed by states, in one form or another. https://www.akpress.org/deciding-for-ourselves.html<https://www.akpress.org/deciding-for-ourselves.html> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 9:52 PM Audrey Verma <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: Bizarre how the writers choose to recast disruption as violence but fail to mention that the climate crisis IS violence, corporate/state-sanctioned, and actually desperate and fatal mainly for the poor in the Global South. Academic incrementalism at this stage is like watching not-so-funny frogs pontificate for promotion, while so many of us try to point out politely that we are boiling. On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:21 PM Hillary Shaw <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: But would you, really? Places like Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan, USSR early 1920s, Liberia 1990s, the Communist vs Fascist clashes in German cities early 1930s, come to mind. Not places where academic debate can flourish freely - let alone healthcare, social security programmes, safe water supplies, electricity even, tend to be widely and reliably available. I believe a sort of planned anarchy was attempted in Christiania, a commune in Copenhagen. Free drugs for all who wanted was part of this plan. Sadly, the most thuggish drug dealers then flourished, evicted less thuggish neighbours to create spaces for their dealing, we soon got Law of the Mob. As in the other places I mentioned. And the environment wasn't too high a priority in these places either. Anarchy always seems to end up as either Darwinian survival of the fittest, or sometimes a very authoritarian Stalinist sort of Communism, maybe Pol-Pot-ism even, (as a stong faction unelected takes control). I'm sure those particular brands of Communism aren't quite exactly what ,most of us on the Left would really want. Dr Hillary J Shaw -----Original Message----- From: Federico Venturini <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Mon, 1 May 2023 20:04 Subject: Re: Why Blowing up Pipelines will not Solve the Climate Crisis I would love to have total anarchy :) On 01/05/23 19:51, Hillary Shaw wrote: A potentially interesting debate that deserved more nuanced debate than the slam-dunk I don;t like that knee jerk reaction. Yes, companies cannpt be relied on to act resposnibly, generally, eithger socially or environmentally. At heart they don;t exist to sell a product, that is incidental to theior main aim, profit creation for sharehlderrs. However, destruction of infrastructure (or related actions like Just Stop Oil blocking roads - a sort of temporary destruction of infrastructure, may get good publicity and highlight vita;l causes - they also provoke a reaction from the State, whoich is basically acting as a lackey of the corporations here, as it wants the tax and GDP from them, and may initially at least achieve the exact opposite of what the p[rotestors / activists want. The State legal system has something called the 'floodgates principle' - basically, 'we can't allow that or everyone would do it and we'd have total anarchy'. May not be true, but it is used to crack down on any intial protests, often, and creates the pretext for more draconian law enforcement. So what to do. Surely not, sit back and let the planet fry, or rely on so,me nebulous non existent altruism by avaricious shareholders. How about consumer action, exercise of choice, along with both wide and targetted publicity, nudges, guilt induction. I guess that's all a lot harder work physically and mentally than blowing something up, though. Dr Hillary J Shaw Centre for Urban Research on Austerity Faculty of Business and Law De Montfort University, Leicester LE1 9BH http://dmu.ac.uk/about-dmu/academic-staff/business-and-law/hilary-shaw/hillary-shaw.aspx<http://dmu.ac.uk/about-dmu/academic-staff/business-and-law/hilary-shaw/hillary-shaw.aspx> www.fooddeserts.org<http://www.fooddeserts.org/> -----Original Message----- From: Stefano Portelli <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Mon, 1 May 2023 16:56 Subject: Re: Why Blowing up Pipelines will not Solve the Climate Crisis Let me add, for those who didn't print it and pinned it on a wall of their living room as I did, this famous quote by Fredric Douglass: "Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters" . Il lun 1 mag 2023, 16:40 Jean Boucher <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> ha scritto: I love it, thx, Anja! - Jean On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 12:03 PM Anja Lind <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: Jesus christ, what an offensive piece of capitalist apology, on the first of May of all days, doing its very best to uncritically shroud practices of infrastructural disruption in the language of violence. "A commitment to ballots not bullets is crucial"—what a fucking galling quip in the country of mass-shootings, to compare damaging a pipeline to shooting humans. If any of you are curious: it's not worth the read, just corporatist apologetics, pleading that we must simply wait for the shareholders to fix the climate. Utter drivel. Den 01.05.2023 08:25, skrev Ilan Kelman: "Why Blowing up Pipelines will not Solve the Climate Crisis" By Nives Dolsak and Aseem Prakash https://www.forbes.com/sites/prakashdolsak/2023/05/01/why-blowing-up-pipelines-will-not-solve-the-climate-crisis<https://www.forbes.com/sites/prakashdolsak/2023/05/01/why-blowing-up-pipelines-will-not-solve-the-climate-crisis> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> -- stefano portelli Leicester University, Department of Geography, affiliate https://periferiesurbanes.org/stefano/<https://periferiesurbanes.org/stefano/> http://napolimonitor.it<http://napolimonitor.it/la-citta-orizzontale/> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1> ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CRIT-GEOG-FORUM list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CRIT-GEOG-FORUM&A=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CRIT-GEOG-FORUM, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/