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Thanks Michael. Fully aware that Steven(s) could be from a personal name. The hypercorrection is almost certainly in recent decades. Intrigued by the studies of dialect plural/genitive use of 's' to denote families. This is of interest to me for entirely different reasons! Thanks especially for this. Bob On 2021-10-16 18:50, Michael Parker wrote: > Hi > > Although explanations relating to times before the 19th century are > possible, it might be worth thinking about the following. > > Firstly, The name could be simply the personal name Steven, without a > genitive -s. The genitive inflexion was often omitted in dialect with > personal names followed by a noun, and there are numerous examples > collected as if by accident at _Survey of English Dialects_ VIII 1 18, > Northern Counties vol 3 pp. 884-5; I can vouch for it from distant > memory in S.Yorks, Unfortunately this idiom isn't recorded at all in > the Lincs responses, East Midlands vol 3 p. 1078, but was doubtless > current c.19, see _English Dialect Dictionary, Grammar_, in vol. 6 p. > 73 para 387, which says 'occasionally in the North Midlands'. > > Alternatively, it also used to be common in nearby areas (again I can > swear for South Yorkshire) that family names, perceived as collectives, > were expressed in the plural, much like modern shop-names. "Back then > Smiths/ Richardsons/ Jepsons had the farm' 'That lad is one of Jepsons' > (not necessarily indicating a single nuclear family as opposed to a > whole network of thus-named relatives). This usage seldom appears in > writing. Somebody may have written the local name Stevens Gutter as > Steven Gutter in a local document (say a map) and the usage caught on > in c20 when oral transmission of field-names was declining among > farmers. The motive would be hypercorrection, the writer, not knowing > the Stevens family (probably not a real Lincolnshire name), thinking > instinctively that the -s form sounded illiterate. > > Either way, I wouldn't for instance cite a c19 field-name that looks > like an ancient place-name as a lost place, if it could be a surname > with a second word 'field' or 'close' dropped, perhaps because the name > felt no less like a local name without it. Somewhere in the > _Place-Names of the West Riding_ Professor Smith ascribed a c.19 Morton > to mor, tūn, but this is very much a risk. The surname Morton, without > the genitive -s because formerly followed by another word, is > sufficient explanation. > > Regards, > > Michael Parker > > From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of > Bob Trubshaw > Sent: 03 October 2021 10:06 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Styfe / Stive > > In Barrowby (Lincs) what is now the village green is also known as > 'Stevens Gutter'. But prior to 1970s seems to have been 'Steven > Gutter'. Frustratingly I am not aware of any pre-C19th references to > this land. > > In the C19th it was part of the rectorial holdings (and presumably for > a long time before) but not explicitly named (merely 'the land which > became the playing fields' in a 1979 document). In the early C20th it > was rented for grazing cattle by the butcher with premises adjacent. In > ?1940 it seems to have become allotments. Subsequently it became a > playing field and playground. > > The 'gutter' is clear enough - prior to being levelled to make playing > fields (in the 1950s?) there was a shallow depression running across > the land (which is close to the summit of Barrowby's eponymous ridge > (OScand _berge + by_). Just possibly this depression was the > back-filled remains of marlstone extraction - the geology is spot on - > rather than natural drainage. > > There was a Stevens family resident in Barrowby in the mid-C19th > (seemingly only for a couple of generations at most) but otherwise the > patronym is absent (I have - for other reasons - indexed nearly 700 > surnames of residents spanning 1066 to 1970s). > > Mills (1993) derives Steventon (Hants and Oxon) and Stevington (Beds - > _Stiuentone_ in 1086) from either a personal name or from OE _styfe. > _Stevenage (Herts) more likely to be from_ stith + ac_. > > _Styfe_ - _stive_ in 1086 - denotes 'tree-stump place'. > > Two questions for the list: > > 1: Is anyone aware of minor toponyms comparable to 'Steven(s) Gutter' > (even more helpful if in an 'enclave' of Anglo-Scandinavian > place-names, as Barrowby is). > > 2: Assuming that _styfe_ and OE _stoc_ are not exact synonyms then what > is the difference? I'm not aware of an OE word denoting coppicing > (e.g. for wood pasture) - though that just might be my ignorance - and > just wondering if _styfe_ could denote coppiced woodland and _stoc > _denote more permanently cleared woodland. > > [Bear in mind in 1086 Barrowby had _fifteen _plough teams - presumably > requiring up to 120 mature oxen, plus juveniles. I doubt the sixty > acres of meadow provided enough winter fodder, allowing for other > over-wintered livestock. If so wood pasture was necessary to keep the > oxen in 'good working order' for the ploughing season in Feb/March?] > > Any thoughts greatly appreciated. > > Bob Trubshaw > > ------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the EPNL list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=EPNL&A=1 > > ------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the EPNL list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=EPNL&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the EPNL list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=EPNL&A=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/EPNL, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/