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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
sorry: "reducitur"


From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Gross-Diaz, Theresa <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 1:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] psalms in the vulgate
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Yep, Nicolas does note the "hebraica' and then simply adds "et in eundem sensus reducit..."

https://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0002/bsb00026026/images/index.html?id=00026026&groesser=&fip=193.174.98.30&no=&seite=185

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Gross-Diaz, Theresa <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 1:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] psalms in the vulgate
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I can affirm that Augustine, Cassiodorus, the Glossa Ordinaria and all the commentators I know of in the West all agree that "compungimini" is the word used - along with the rest of the phasing of the Sept. text (which is the normal "medieval" psalter). If that's your question, yes, they would have read "compungimini".
Nicolas of Lyra almost certainly would have known "tacere" also, so it would be interesting to see what he says about the two readings. I could check for you later, if you're interested.
TGD


From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Kurt Sherry <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] psalms in the vulgate
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I am not an expert, by any means, but there are a few things to consider. One is that the Masoretic text is actually rooted in much later readings than the LXX (8th c. CE or so v. early 2nd c. BCE). Even the numbering is a bit different. In the LXX, this is 4:5, but it's 4:4 in most English Bibles (which are presumably following a  Hebrew system). My understanding of the Vulgate is that Jerome tried to translate from the Hebrew (but the Hebrew text he would have used would predate the Masoretic, but things like the Dead Sea Scrolls seem to track closer to the LXX than the Masoretic, when there's a discrepancy between the two; again, I would defer to true biblical scholars).

Compungimini is definitely closer to the LXX, κατανύγητε, which has a grammatical thing that can't be adequately conveyed in translation (it's an aorist imperative, like ἐλέησον). The Greek does mean to be sorely pricked or gouged (though it could also mean to arrive at an end, but that seems unlikely here) and that is how the word is used in the NT in Acts 2:37. It might even be worth noting that in Acts, the phrase is actually "sorely pricked in the heart," so there is likely an intentional echo of the Psalm in the phrase. Furthermore, it immediately follows Luke quoting extensively from the psalms. 

All that said, the Greek can also mean to be sort of brought to stunned silence (presumably as a result of being deeply wounded), which would be a reading closer to tacete. I would be curious to see if the Masoretic actually reads differently from the Dead Sea Scrolls or other early Hebrew texts or if it's a case where the same word could be translated differently or if simply supplying vowel dots made the difference.

In the end, I think the variant reading does matter. It changes how one interprets the psalm. If you prefer the LXX reading, it calls for repentance that leads to righteous sacrifice. If you prefer the Hebraica, it is a call for self-control. I would say that the LXX reading is more in keeping with early medieval Christian spirituality (admittedly, I'm a Byzantinist, so what I think might be totally irrelevant for your concerns).

Kurt

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:37 AM Cate Gunn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Hello

I am trying to make sense of a verse in the Psalms, but don’t have access to a text of the Vulgate (except for a modern Biblia Sacra). The only text I’ve found online so far is on vulgate.org which gives texts both ‘iuxta hebraica’ and ‘iuxta septuaginta’; I’m assuming that Jerome’s original translation (and its descendants/variations) are ‘iuxta septuaginta’? This is certainly the version found in the 14th cent. Macclesfield Psalter (of which I have a facsimile). the King James translation is closer to that iuxta hebraica, which makes sense since the translators used the Hebrew. (Sorry - my knowledge of the translation and transmission of bible texts is piecemeal to say the best.)

I’m interested in Psalm 4, verse 5: ‘Irascimini et nolite peccare ques dictis in cordibus vestris; in cubilibus vestris conpungimini’ [iuxta septuaginta] or Irascimini et nolite peccare loquimini in cordibus vestris super cubilia vestra et tacete semper’ [iuxta hebraica].
What interests me is the change from ‘tacete’ to ‘conpungimini’, and whether this is significant? Presumably if I’m to draw any conclusions about reading this in the Middle Ages I need to consider ‘conpungimini’ rather than ’tacete’?

Any ideas or online accessible resources on the psalms in the Middle Ages gratefully received!

Many thanks
Cate


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