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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Mickey Sweeney (Dominican) has written a lot on Gawain and this ( https://kb.osu.edu/handle/1811/71351) on the girdle gift - might be useful? *Dr Louise Hampson* *Heritage Research and Partnerships Coordinator* *The Centre for the Study of Christianity and Culture* *Berrick Saul Building Room 122* *University of York* *York* *YO10 5DD* Find us on *Facebook* at http://www.facebook.com/ChristianityAndCulture *www.christianityandculture.org.uk <http://www.christianityandculture.org.uk> * *Tel: +44 (0)1904 328095* *EMAIL DISCLAIMER **http://www.york.ac.uk/docs/disclaimer/email.htm <http://www.york.ac.uk/docs/disclaimer/email.htm>* On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 15:49, Richard Legault <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Does anyone know of any good reads that might address The Virgin, her > girdle and St. Thomas's doubt as they link symbolically to Lady Bertilak, > her green girdle and Sir Gawain's doubt? > > Richard J Legault > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 7:41 AM John Beal <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> The details about Mary's girdle and St Thomas are outlined in >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas >> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas> >> Girdle of Thomas - Wikipedia >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas> >> The Girdle of Thomas, Virgin's Girdle, Holy Belt, or Sacra Cintola in >> modern Italian, is a Christian relic in the form of a "girdle" or knotted >> textile cord used as a belt, that according to a medieval legend was >> dropped by the Virgin Mary from the sky to Saint Thomas the Apostle at or >> around the time of the Assumption of Mary to heaven. The supposed original >> girdle is a relic belonging to ... >> en.wikipedia.org >> >> >> There is a stained glass window showing the incident in the Church of >> the Assumption of St Mary the Virgin, Beckley, Oxfordshire. (Attached, if >> the attachment works) >> >> Further details about the window on >> >> https://vidimus.org/issues/issue-17/panel-of-the-month/ >> Panel of the Month | Vidimus >> <https://vidimus.org/issues/issue-17/panel-of-the-month/> >> The other panel of the Assumption of the Virgin at Beckley, dated to the >> early years of the century on the basis of style, has faired much better >> (Fig. 3), with only the skirt of the Virgin’s robe and the heads of two >> angels and a wing restored. >> vidimus.org >> >> Best wishes. >> >> >> John >> >> >> *Dr John F Beal MBE, PhD* >> *[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>* >> >> *Tel: 0113 294 8795* >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious >> culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Laura Jacobus < >> [log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* 10 January 2020 10:50 >> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] dormition, assumption, and Marian relics >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> Fascinating textile and discussion of it! Getting back to the relics >> issue, in Italy the relic of the girdle held at Prato (and maybe others >> elsewhere) was firmly linked to the Assumption in images which showed her >> taking off her girdle and dropping it from the sky to be caught by St. >> Thomas (presumably because he's the doubting one and hence needed the >> girdle as proof that he wasn't having a vision?). I assume there are >> various textual sources, but other will know them. >> >> Images are able to skate over the ambiguities of the theology. The >> majority of Italian Marian series that I'm aware of hedge their bets by >> showing separate scenes of both the Dormition and the Assumption. The >> former might be literally a 'sleeping' Virgin, from the Eastern title, but >> is actually shown a dead one since Christ is shown collecting her soul and >> taking it to Heaven. The Assumption shows her as re-animated, as she's >> always very actively participating in her elevation by angels, and is never >> (as far as I'm aware) shown as a levitating corpse/sleeper. >> >> all best >> >> Laura >> Dr. Laura Jacobus >> Birkbeck, University of London >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 10:35, Cormack, Margaret Jean <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> Dear Brenda, >> Glad to see that someone still knows her grammar! Similar issue with >> 'contemplate' vs. 'meditate'. >> Margaret >> PS I could not see how to reply to you directly, only the list. >> Listowners, wasn´t there a time when one could cut and paste the email of >> the sender from a message? >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious >> culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Ms B M Cook < >> [log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 9, 2020 2:48 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] dormition >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not >> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know >> the content is safe. >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> Surely anyone who speaks of the “Ascension” of Mary is falling into a >> major theological (and grammatical!!) error? >> >> Christ ascended because he is God and does so of his own power (even if >> one says that God raised Christ one is saying the same thing because Christ >> IS God). Ascension is an active verb. >> >> Mary is assumed which is passive because she is (only!!) human and is >> taken up by the power of God not of her own power. Assumption is a passive >> verb. >> >> Brenda M C >> >> *From:* James Bugslag <[log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 09, 2020 6:10 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] dormition >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> There is a fairly recent theory that "Ascension" scenes such as Kurt >> pointed out in the Rabbula Gospels actually represent Mary's "Ascension". >> See Ally Kateusz, “Ascension of Christ or Ascension of Mary? Reconsidering >> a Popular Early Iconography,” *Journal of Early Christian Studies*, 23, >> no. 2 (Summer 2015), 273-303. I must admit that I was skeptical of this >> theory, but it would certainly seem to fit with the inscription on the Sens >> textile that Genevra alerted us to. >> >> Jim >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious >> culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Kurt Sherry < >> [log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* January 9, 2020 11:08:01 AM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] dormition >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> How do you read the Latin? Something along the lines of the crossing over >> of Mary the Mother of the Lord with the Apostles? I confess that my Latin >> was never very good and I seldom use it. >> >> Looking at the textile itself, certain stylistic elements (forgive me, I >> know very little about textiles, so I probably don't have the proper >> technical terms) are reminiscent of Byzantine-style vestments, e.g., the >> roundels of icons set off from one another by ribbon-like bands that have >> smaller icons (I see an angel, for example) or crosses where the bands >> meet. The scene itself reminiscent of the standard Byzantine depiction of >> the Ascension (and since Mary's breasts are so evident, I thought of the Rabbula >> Gospels >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fartandtheology.org%2Ftag%2Frabbula-gospels%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccormackm%40COFC.EDU%7C906112f69470437b05e408d795517fe2%7Ce285d438dbba4a4c941c593ba422deac%7C0%7C0%7C637142049588200107&sdata=N7VQJsxVEW5IQWtlEUb3hBB%2F8js%2FxDzW8RRLO09SMn8%3D&reserved=0>) >> rather than what became the norm for the iconography of the Dormition. >> >> A modern vestment maker to look at to see the kind of styling I mean is Riza >> >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.riza.com.au%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccormackm%40COFC.EDU%7C906112f69470437b05e408d795517fe2%7Ce285d438dbba4a4c941c593ba422deac%7C0%7C0%7C637142049588210099&sdata=k6pPICS6B2Hygf2CQp7bpBRAOjOqBQYXa7wlMt5QD%2B0%3D&reserved=0>from >> Australia. >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 10:31 AM Genevra Kornbluth <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> I have been following this thread with interest, so thanks to you all. It >> helps to explain what is going on with an eighth-century textile in Sens >> that has attracted less attention than (it seems to me) it should. It is >> inscribed (woven into the fabric and difficult to read) COM TRANSIS SET >> MARIA MATER DOMINO DE APOSTOLIS. I would love to see your thoughts about it. >> <http://www.kornbluthphoto.com/SensAssumption.html> >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kornbluthphoto.com%2FSensAssumption.html&data=02%7C01%7Ccormackm%40COFC.EDU%7C906112f69470437b05e408d795517fe2%7Ce285d438dbba4a4c941c593ba422deac%7C0%7C0%7C637142049588220095&sdata=lnEIbTlhDgWkU4s070JbQ8XkV1A%2BkolWRz%2FqP2Kk24M%3D&reserved=0> >> best, >> Genevra >> >> On 1/9/2020 4:51 AM, André-Yves Bourgès wrote: >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> Dear list-members >> >> Besides *Assumptio* and *Dormitio*, there has been another word ( >> *Depositio*) which is found before 597 in kalendar of Autun (*XV Kal. >> feb. Depositio sanctae Mariae*). I have a quick look at the works of >> Gregory of Tours : irreplaceable Greg, with whom we are able to find almost >> everything regarding the time he was living ! After he told the story how >> the corpse of Mary has been elevated on a cloud in Paradise where the >> Virgin has recovered her soul (*resumpta anima*)*, he confirmed that in >> his time (end of VIth century), the Marian Feast was celebrated mid-january >> (*Hujus festivitas sacra mediante mense undecimo celebratur*) in >> accordance to the date given in the Autun kalendar (the same date is >> also found in previous kalendars of Arles, Lyon, Auxerre). >> >> ANDRE YVES BOURGES >> >> * *Diluculo autem levaverunt apostoli cum lectulo corpus ejus, >> posueruntque illud in monumento, et custodiebant ipsum, adventum Domini >> praestolantes. Et ecce iterum adstitit eis Dominus , susceptumque corpus >> sanctum in nube deferri jussit in paradisum : ubi nunc, resumpta anima, cum >> electis ejus exsultans, aeternitatis bonis, nullo occasuris fine, >> perfruitur*. >> >> >> ********************************************************************** To >> join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: >> [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: >> [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: >> unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to >> report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >> 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