 |
 |
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture It is interesting that so many of the images showing St Thomas receiving the Virgin's Girdle also depict Mary being "assumed" to heaven in a mandorla supported by angels. This might be interpreted as indicating her bodily Assumption. Jim ________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Gordon Plumb <[log in to unmask]> Sent: January 15, 2020 5:57:02 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition, assumption, and Marian relics medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Two more examples of the Assumption in glass - all that remains at Normanton in West Yorkshire, showing Thomas receiving the Virgin's glrdle and North Moreton, where the Ascending Virgin is in a mandorla of roses, the stem of which has no thorns (?Mary as the "rose without a thorn). https://www.flickr.com/photos/22274117@N08/4322986955 https://www.flickr.com/photos/22274117@N08/2945593238 Gordon Plumb -----Original Message----- From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]> To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 10:21 Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition, assumption, and Marian relics medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Well, many such details. One should not expect exhaustiveness in an encyclopedia entry. The Wikipedia article "Girdle of Thomas" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas) fails entirely to mention what seems to be far and away the earliest surviving instance of that legendary object's representation in art, the central panel of a marble tympanon by the now much discussed twelfth-century sculptor known from this work's findspot and present home (the église de Notre-Dame in Cabestany [Pyrénées-Orientales]) as the Master of Cabestany. Here's a look (Thomas at Jesus' right, holding the cincture): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Cabestany_tympanon2.jpg While we're here, a few other images of Thomas with Mary's cincture roughly contemporary with the one in glass in the Church of the Assumption of St Mary the Virgin, Beckley (ca. 1326-1350): a) as depicted (receiving the Virgin's cincture) in the earlier fourteenth-century De Lisle Hours (English origin; ca. 1313-1331; New York, Pierpont Morgan Library, MS G.50, fol. 162v): http://ica.themorgan.org/manuscript/page/27/76993 b) as depicted (receiving the Virgin's cincture) in the earlier fourteenth-century Hungarian Angevin Legendary (Bolognese-trained artists perh. working in Hungary; ca. 1325-1340; Città del Vaticano, BAV, ms. Vat. lat. 8451, fol. 3r, upper left): https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.lat.8541/0015 c) as depicted (receiving the Virgin's cincture) in the earlier fourteenth-century frescoes (betw. 1335 and 1350) of the nave in the church of the Holy Ascension at the Visoki Dečani monastery near Peć in, depending on one's view of the matter, either the Republic of Kosovo or Serbia's province of Kosovo and Metohija: https://tinyurl.com/vzatsj7 d) as depicted (just left of center, handing the Virgin's cincture to its first custodian) in an earlier fourteenth-century panel painting (1337-1338) by Bernardo Daddi on a predella formerly in the chapel of the bishop's palace in Prato and since 1870 in Prato's Museo civico: http://tinyurl.com/owgdj5k e) as depicted (hands only, receiving the Virgin's cincture) in a panel painting, now in New York in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, from a dismembered earlier fourteenth-century altarpiece (ca. 1337-1339) by Bernardo Daddi: https://www.metmuseum.org/en/art/collection/search/458998 Best, John Dillon ________________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of John Beal <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 6:32 AM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition, assumption, and Marian relics medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture The details about Mary's girdle and St Thomas are outlined in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Accademia_-_Assumption_of_the_Virgin_by_Palma_il_Vecchio.jpg/1200px-Accademia_-_Assumption_of_the_Virgin_by_Palma_il_Vecchio.jpg]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas> Girdle of Thomas - Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Thomas> The Girdle of Thomas, Virgin's Girdle, Holy Belt, or Sacra Cintola in modern Italian, is a Christian relic in the form of a "girdle" or knotted textile cord used as a belt, that according to a medieval legend was dropped by the Virgin Mary from the sky to Saint Thomas the Apostle at or around the time of the Assumption of Mary to heaven. The supposed original girdle is a relic belonging to ... en.wikipedia.org There is a stained glass window showing the incident in the Church of the Assumption of St Mary the Virgin, Beckley, Oxfordshire. (Attached, if the attachment works) Further details about the window on https://vidimus.org/issues/issue-17/panel-of-the-month/ Panel of the Month | Vidimus<https://vidimus.org/issues/issue-17/panel-of-the-month/> The other panel of the Assumption of the Virgin at Beckley, dated to the early years of the century on the basis of style, has faired much better (Fig. 3), with only the skirt of the Virgin’s robe and the heads of two angels and a wing restored. vidimus.org Best wishes. John Dr John F Beal MBE, PhD [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Tel: 0113 294 8795 ________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Laura Jacobus <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Sent: 10 January 2020 10:50 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition, assumption, and Marian relics medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Fascinating textile and discussion of it! Getting back to the relics issue, in Italy the relic of the girdle held at Prato (and maybe others elsewhere) was firmly linked to the Assumption in images which showed her taking off her girdle and dropping it from the sky to be caught by St. Thomas (presumably because he's the doubting one and hence needed the girdle as proof that he wasn't having a vision?). I assume there are various textual sources, but other will know them. Images are able to skate over the ambiguities of the theology. The majority of Italian Marian series that I'm aware of hedge their bets by showing separate scenes of both the Dormition and the Assumption. The former might be literally a 'sleeping' Virgin, from the Eastern title, but is actually shown a dead one since Christ is shown collecting her soul and taking it to Heaven. The Assumption shows her as re-animated, as she's always very actively participating in her elevation by angels, and is never (as far as I'm aware) shown as a levitating corpse/sleeper. all best Laura Dr. Laura Jacobus Birkbeck, University of London On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 10:35, Cormack, Margaret Jean <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear Brenda, Glad to see that someone still knows her grammar! Similar issue with 'contemplate' vs. 'meditate'. Margaret PS I could not see how to reply to you directly, only the list. Listowners, wasn´t there a time when one could cut and paste the email of the sender from a message? ________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> on behalf of Ms B M Cook <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2020 2:48 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Surely anyone who speaks of the “Ascension” of Mary is falling into a major theological (and grammatical!!) error? Christ ascended because he is God and does so of his own power (even if one says that God raised Christ one is saying the same thing because Christ IS God). Ascension is an active verb. Mary is assumed which is passive because she is (only!!) human and is taken up by the power of God not of her own power. Assumption is a passive verb. Brenda M C From: James Bugslag<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2020 6:10 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture There is a fairly recent theory that "Ascension" scenes such as Kurt pointed out in the Rabbula Gospels actually represent Mary's "Ascension". See Ally Kateusz, “Ascension of Christ or Ascension of Mary? Reconsidering a Popular Early Iconography,” Journal of Early Christian Studies, 23, no. 2 (Summer 2015), 273-303. I must admit that I was skeptical of this theory, but it would certainly seem to fit with the inscription on the Sens textile that Genevra alerted us to. Jim ________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> on behalf of Kurt Sherry <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> Sent: January 9, 2020 11:08:01 AM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Subject: Re: [M-R] dormition medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture How do you read the Latin? Something along the lines of the crossing over of Mary the Mother of the Lord with the Apostles? I confess that my Latin was never very good and I seldom use it. Looking at the textile itself, certain stylistic elements (forgive me, I know very little about textiles, so I probably don't have the proper technical terms) are reminiscent of Byzantine-style vestments, e.g., the roundels of icons set off from one another by ribbon-like bands that have smaller icons (I see an angel, for example) or crosses where the bands meet. The scene itself reminiscent of the standard Byzantine depiction of the Ascension (and since Mary's breasts are so evident, I thought of the Rabbula Gospels<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fartandtheology.org%2Ftag%2Frabbula-gospels%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccormackm%40COFC.EDU%7C906112f69470437b05e408d795517fe2%7Ce285d438dbba4a4c941c593ba422deac%7C0%7C0%7C637142049588200107&sdata=N7VQJsxVEW5IQWtlEUb3hBB%2F8js%2FxDzW8RRLO09SMn8%3D&reserved=0>) rather than what became the norm for the iconography of the Dormition. A modern vestment maker to look at to see the kind of styling I mean is Riza <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.riza.com.au%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccormackm%40COFC.EDU%7C906112f69470437b05e408d795517fe2%7Ce285d438dbba4a4c941c593ba422deac%7C0%7C0%7C637142049588210099&sdata=k6pPICS6B2Hygf2CQp7bpBRAOjOqBQYXa7wlMt5QD%2B0%3D&reserved=0> from Australia. On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 10:31 AM Genevra Kornbluth <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I have been following this thread with interest, so thanks to you all. It helps to explain what is going on with an eighth-century textile in Sens that has attracted less attention than (it seems to me) it should. It is inscribed (woven into the fabric and difficult to read) COM TRANSIS SET MARIA MATER DOMINO DE APOSTOLIS. I would love to see your thoughts about it. <http://www.kornbluthphoto.com/SensAssumption.html><https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kornbluthphoto.com%2FSensAssumption.html&data=02%7C01%7Ccormackm%40COFC.EDU%7C906112f69470437b05e408d795517fe2%7Ce285d438dbba4a4c941c593ba422deac%7C0%7C0%7C637142049588220095&sdata=lnEIbTlhDgWkU4s070JbQ8XkV1A%2BkolWRz%2FqP2Kk24M%3D&reserved=0> best, Genevra On 1/9/2020 4:51 AM, André-Yves Bourgès wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear list-members Besides Assumptio and Dormitio, there has been another word (Depositio) which is found before 597 in kalendar of Autun (XV Kal. feb. Depositio sanctae Mariae). I have a quick look at the works of Gregory of Tours : irreplaceable Greg, with whom we are able to find almost everything regarding the time he was living ! After he told the story how the corpse of Mary has been elevated on a cloud in Paradise where the Virgin has recovered her soul (resumpta anima)*, he confirmed that in his time (end of VIth century), the Marian Feast was celebrated mid-january (Hujus festivitas sacra mediante mense undecimo celebratur) in accordance to the date given in the Autun kalendar (the same date is also found in previous kalendars of Arles, Lyon, Auxerre). ANDRE YVES BOURGES * Diluculo autem levaverunt apostoli cum lectulo corpus ejus, posueruntque illud in monumento, et custodiebant ipsum, adventum Domini praestolantes. Et ecce iterum adstitit eis Dominus , susceptumque corpus sanctum in nube deferri jussit in paradisum : ubi nunc, resumpta anima, cum electis ejus exsultans, aeternitatis bonis, nullo occasuris fine, perfruitur. ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion