I suppose poetry that is easy to teach will always appeal to creative writing teachers. The lack of knowledge of Charles Olson may surprise us but I suppose he is sadly a minority interest poet. William Carlos Williams is better known to poetry academics with regard to inclusion in anthologies. To not mention him in the American canon would seem ignorant so he is there. 

The failure to value Charles Olson since his death in 1970 is to ignore a vital poet who of course like all of us was human. He made mistakes as we all do in life to our cost.

To teach the work of Billy Collins is a cakewalk or Mary Oliver or in fiction Hillary Mantel. It is all direct text with no great complications more complex writers present in their style. 

The future maybe on social media Luke but the novelty is gone with some Instagram poets making waves. Applications on social media are very stagnant despite R and D having huge budgets. I would look more to Asia for developments in poetry than to the old west. 

But experimentation deserves a huge focus to pull poetry out of an abyss it has landed itself in. Any social upheaval produces anxiety which can trigger poetry of mediocrity and quality. The gap between Billy Collins and Charles Olson ( 1910-1970) is vast with Collins (1941-) seen as a major league poet. Collins is easy to read but Olson demands more effort from eyes and ears.

Compare Emily Critchley with Luke Kennard who are both early eighties by birth and Critchley is on another level. Yet Luke is better known than Emily who is far more talented as a poet. On the other hand both are equal at networking and PR but Luke reaches parts Emily does not reach. Both are doing well in their own fields so nobody is complaining or lamenting their literary fates.

There’s a lot of this century left Luke and things can change and it’s too easy for the old to warble on about the good old days. They never existed in my baby boomer years but the best may yet to come.

Cheers

Sean

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On Saturday, 24 August 2019, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> creative writing courses where the would-be new minions of the new money want only to study the writings of their contemporaries
I just wanted to agree with this. Every poet that it was suggested I read was a contemporary poet, and the school seemed baffled even by an interest in Charles Olson.
At the time, I assumed they thought me too stupid for the modernists. Perhaps not?
Luke

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 08:28, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
How will our generation be seen?

The first question is whether it will be seen at all.

Outside of a dwindling number of specialists in the corporate controlled universities of the future. Oh and cranks like us.

The past is an unwanted narrative to the new bourgeoisie, unless it has been suitably treated. I've certainly reports of creative writing courses where the would-be new minions of the new money want only to study the writings of their contemporaries.

db

On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 23:11, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> how will our generation be seen
I don't know who the next generation (reminds me of poetry awards) are, but the content of your email suggests fears of being seen as more irrelevant than is ideal -- right? I'd add 'social media': how poets might network and make a name for themselves entirely independent of the goals of the older generation.

That sounds less anarchic to me than it does mediocre and commercial.
But what do I know?

Cheers,
Luke

On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 23:18, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


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On Thursday, 22 August 2019, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

There certainly are other groups and many on here can point you in the correct direction in finding them. 

Lurking is fine and it’s nice to know there’s life out there beyond Luke & Peter & David. I don’t expect everyone to contribute but there are important issues we could discuss if anyone is interested. It does not have to be political or veer towards social studies as literature in itself is adequate. There is life beyond JH Prynne whose output is admirable with my criticism purely on grounds of access.

Also we live in a political world that becomes more apolitical with old brands being toppled upside down. The modern society has little community spirit except in a crisis which I expect permeates into the world of writing. Once upon a time people went to church now they go to vast shopping emporiums for a Sunday of consumption. 

The hot zones of the planet are faraway from our shores where bombs explode killing sixty three in Kabul. Nobody on the islands we dwell on seems to be concerned about this or our media celebrities. 

In a literary sense we must look to the future not be stuck in the past as our generation gradually fades away. 

What will the legacy be & how will our generation be seen?

Cheers
Sean

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On Thursday, 22 August 2019, Dylan Harris <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I confess to lurking.

I rather enjoy the discussions, actually, although I don't feel able to contribute: I'm just too ignorant. Please keep them up. I'll applaud occasionally if it'll help.

But since I'm here: where else online do poets congregate and have intelligent, reasoned, and in-depth discussions? I only know of here. I'd like to distribute my lurking.

Dylan Harris
---
https://corruptpress.net/



On 22/08/19, 14:04, "British & Irish poets on behalf of Sean Carey" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:

    The list has gone very quiet with only David B & Luke & Peter Riley keeping it alive. Others simply promote books or readings they’re involved in or running which of course is fair enough.
    Many now are a fair age or busy and it is the silly season in media terminology which may be a factor?
   
    In my own view social media has died a natural death or is close to becoming irrelevant. Novelty was a huge draw to internet users back in the honeymoon years.
   
    By nature writers can be anti social staying within tight circles or cocoons rather than engaging readers. The general public don’t mind what JH Prynne is doing but pay close attention to Love Island or Britain’s Got Talent.
   
    Few newcomers have emerged on the list while I am unsure if lurkers still exist? In other cultures the arts get more attention and appreciation than in Britain or Ireland.
   
    Nobody seems to mind Brexit or the ongoing wars “faraway” or refugees dying in the Mediterranean. Yes JH Prynne has addressed it but his absurd distribution systems make getting his recent books a chore. That is not good enough in 2019 in my view and should not be accepted.
   
    Some of us may not live to see these publications collated in a new Bloodaxe edition of “Poems” by Prynne. But in fairness Prynne is not alone in being hard to find in print but I am using him as a leading light. Let’s opt for Glasnost!
   
    Wishing you well
   
    Sean
   
   
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