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Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, 30 August 2019, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Yes it can be easily forgotten that Jeremy Prynne is a poet and I regret I discovered his work in the nineteen eighties. To have read him sooner would have been a wonderful experience but it was not to be. In the nineteen eighties WJ McCormack aka Hugh Maxton featured a Prynne poem on his Radio 1 Irish radio programme. But it was via Tim Longville’s magazine the Grosseteste Review that I first read a Prynne poem. Also with iconic writers it is all too easy to forget they are or were actually writers who had to start somewhere. The culture business tends to present a mythologized study rather than a human flesh and blood persona. Like all poets Jeremy Prynne had to serve his apprenticeship as well as determine his path. We are conditioned from the cradle or even embryonic to a rudimentary incipient of culture. Cheers Sean Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, 30 August 2019, Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Hi Sean - with regard to Prynne and complexity I have one comment - I think people focus on the ‘complexity’ too much because they forget that it is actually poetry. On 30 Aug 2019, at 11:18, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Oh yes indeed a generalisation regarding terms Tim which started from JH Prynne’s work. Labels can deceive when applied to poetic modes of practice with a crossover factor always present. So points certainly taken and nice to see you back Tim. It’s good to hear Alice Notley is studied Robert as she is an important poet with a broad canvas. I love the scale in her work coupled with expansive themes that don’t require sparse minimalistic presentations. A near blank page is fine with a very skilled poet like Emily Critchley in her recent book. Critchley is a major poet with a glittering future who may reach great heights. What she can do is beyond others who go down that road and it’s not on Emily’s level of excellence. As an aside the variety of styles Reality Street Editions published involved very varied range of writings. The same with Shearsman who are catholic in their taste in a positive sense. This is healthy as well as democratic in a literary way but there are many worthy publishers who deserve due praise. I thank Ken Edwards for his contribution to experimental writing which is now continuing in another form. Wendy Mulford too of course was involved with the overall project. I wish her well and thank her for her publications and writings. Cheers Sean Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, 30 August 2019, Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Hi Sean etc. Long time since I’ve been on here - when I changed computers my Britpo connections got scrambled and nearly everything goes in spam but the occasional post gets through, like this one. With reference to this thread I do not necessarily agree with the binary of complex/simple to catagorise experimental (or whatever) and mainstream (or whatever). The faultlines involve a series of different tracks and causes in which things like ’simple’ and ‘complex’ are surface results that can be misleading when taken to be fundamental. CheersTim Allen On 29 Aug 2019, at 23:34, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Yes there are exceptions to the non complex academic line and these are commendable. I recently came across a seminar in Wales on Charles Olson by chance but after the event had passed. Maggie O’ Sullivan I hosted and introduced in Dublin in 1988 on the closing night of the seven day Childline festival. Allen Fisher I met in 1987 when he read for a reading series at The Winding Stair bookshop. Redell I know from the lamented Reality Street Editions press but the students names don’t ring a bell. Gertrude Stein thankfully is in print but I am curious about who actually teaches her work in Britain or Ireland? Maybe we must just accept that complex writings have a limited appeal compared to less demanding writing. That’s sad but at least many more demanding texts are being read as well as studied. The average reader or student or teacher favours the basic poetic material on curriculums. Again there are exceptions and excellent presses and magazines not afraid of experimentation. On another angle I am curious to see what those on the list think of Paul Buck’s work and views on Alice Notley’s? Cheers Sean Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Thursday, 29 August 2019, Hampson, R <[log in to unmask]> wrote: The MA in Poetic Practice (now the Poetic Practice pathway of the MA in Creative Writing) began with Stein, Olsen and New York School poets, Allen Fisher and Maggie O'Sullivan. anyone familiar with Redell Olsen's work (and with the work of students from the programme - like Prudence Bussey-Chamberlain or Nisha Ramayya) wouldn't expect a course of easy-reading poetry. RobertFrom: British & Irish poets <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 24 August 2019 16:42 To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dear Luke I suppose poetry that is easy to teach will always appeal to creative writing teachers. The lack of knowledge of Charles Olson may surprise us but I suppose he is sadly a minority interest poet. William Carlos Williams is better known to poetry academics with regard to inclusion in anthologies. To not mention him in the American canon would seem ignorant so he is there. The failure to value Charles Olson since his death in 1970 is to ignore a vital poet who of course like all of us was human. He made mistakes as we all do in life to our cost. To teach the work of Billy Collins is a cakewalk or Mary Oliver or in fiction Hillary Mantel. It is all direct text with no great complications more complex writers present in their style. The future maybe on social media Luke but the novelty is gone with some Instagram poets making waves. Applications on social media are very stagnant despite R and D having huge budgets. I would look more to Asia for developments in poetry than to the old west. But experimentation deserves a huge focus to pull poetry out of an abyss it has landed itself in. Any social upheaval produces anxiety which can trigger poetry of mediocrity and quality. The gap between Billy Collins and Charles Olson ( 1910-1970) is vast with Collins (1941-) seen as a major league poet. Collins is easy to read but Olson demands more effort from eyes and ears. Compare Emily Critchley with Luke Kennard who are both early eighties by birth and Critchley is on another level. Yet Luke is better known than Emily who is far more talented as a poet. On the other hand both are equal at networking and PR but Luke reaches parts Emily does not reach. Both are doing well in their own fields so nobody is complaining or lamenting their literary fates. There’s a lot of this century left Luke and things can change and it’s too easy for the old to warble on about the good old days. They never existed in my baby boomer years but the best may yet to come. Cheers Sean Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Saturday, 24 August 2019, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > creative writing courses where the would-be new minions of the new money want only to study the writings of their contemporaries I just wanted to agree with this. Every poet that it was suggested I read was a contemporary poet, and the school seemed baffled even by an interest in Charles Olson.At the time, I assumed they thought me too stupid for the modernists. Perhaps not?Luke On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 08:28, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote: How will our generation be seen? The first question is whether it will be seen at all. Outside of a dwindling number of specialists in the corporate controlled universities of the future. Oh and cranks like us. The past is an unwanted narrative to the new bourgeoisie, unless it has been suitably treated. I've certainly reports of creative writing courses where the would-be new minions of the new money want only to study the writings of their contemporaries. db On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 23:11, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > how will our generation be seen I don't know who the next generation (reminds me of poetry awards) are, but the content of your email suggests fears of being seen as more irrelevant than is ideal -- right? I'd add 'social media': how poets might network and make a name for themselves entirely independent of the goals of the older generation. That sounds less anarchic to me than it does mediocre and commercial. But what do I know? Cheers, Luke On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 23:18, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Thursday, 22 August 2019, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote: There certainly are other groups and many on here can point you in the correct direction in finding them. Lurking is fine and it’s nice to know there’s life out there beyond Luke & Peter & David. I don’t expect everyone to contribute but there are important issues we could discuss if anyone is interested. It does not have to be political or veer towards social studies as literature in itself is adequate. There is life beyond JH Prynne whose output is admirable with my criticism purely on grounds of access. Also we live in a political world that becomes more apolitical with old brands being toppled upside down. The modern society has little community spirit except in a crisis which I expect permeates into the world of writing. Once upon a time people went to church now they go to vast shopping emporiums for a Sunday of consumption. The hot zones of the planet are faraway from our shores where bombs explode killing sixty three in Kabul. Nobody on the islands we dwell on seems to be concerned about this or our media celebrities. In a literary sense we must look to the future not be stuck in the past as our generation gradually fades away. What will the legacy be & how will our generation be seen? CheersSean Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Thursday, 22 August 2019, Dylan Harris <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I confess to lurking. I rather enjoy the discussions, actually, although I don't feel able to contribute: I'm just too ignorant. Please keep them up. I'll applaud occasionally if it'll help. But since I'm here: where else online do poets congregate and have intelligent, reasoned, and in-depth discussions? I only know of here. I'd like to distribute my lurking. Dylan Harris --- https://corruptpress.net/ On 22/08/19, 14:04, "British & Irish poets on behalf of Sean Carey" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote: The list has gone very quiet with only David B & Luke & Peter Riley keeping it alive. Others simply promote books or readings they’re involved in or running which of course is fair enough. Many now are a fair age or busy and it is the silly season in media terminology which may be a factor? In my own view social media has died a natural death or is close to becoming irrelevant. Novelty was a huge draw to internet users back in the honeymoon years. By nature writers can be anti social staying within tight circles or cocoons rather than engaging readers. The general public don’t mind what JH Prynne is doing but pay close attention to Love Island or Britain’s Got Talent. Few newcomers have emerged on the list while I am unsure if lurkers still exist? In other cultures the arts get more attention and appreciation than in Britain or Ireland. Nobody seems to mind Brexit or the ongoing wars “faraway” or refugees dying in the Mediterranean. Yes JH Prynne has addressed it but his absurd distribution systems make getting his recent books a chore. That is not good enough in 2019 in my view and should not be accepted. Some of us may not live to see these publications collated in a new Bloodaxe edition of “Poems” by Prynne. But in fairness Prynne is not alone in being hard to find in print but I am using him as a leading light. Let’s opt for Glasnost! Wishing you well Sean Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com <http://mail.mobile.aol.com> ________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the BRITISH-IRISH-POETS list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&A=1