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Hi, Richard, I'm seriously arguing that aesthetics is NOT part of design. That is It would be better if research definitions of design explicitly excluded aesthetics. The justification for this is the same as any definition of engineering design as an activity must indicate that it is independent of (say) engineering analysis. I'm being epistemologically precise here. The use of aesthetic skill or mathematical modelling skills of engineering are part of the information gathering that designers use in parallel to the activity of designing. Neither aesthetics nor engineering analysis are intrinsically ESSENTIAL to the activity of design (you might see them as personal habits and preferences of art-based or engineering-based designers). Not only would I suggest that aesthetics is not at the core of design activity, I'd suggest the habits in the Art and Design fields have led to this unhelpful conflation of aesthetics and design. For the sake of developing a sound basis for design research and design theories, because of the current faulty extensive body of implicit assumptions linking aesthetics and design it is almost certainly essential to explicitly completely exclude aesthetics from any general definition of design intended to be used by design researchers. Best regards, Terence == Dr Terence Love, School of Design and Built Environment, Curtin University, Western Australia CEO, Design Out Crime and CPTED Centre PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks, Western Australia 6030 [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] +61 (0)4 3497 5848 ORCID 0000-0002-2436-7566 == -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Richard Herriott Sent: Wednesday, 29 May 2019 1:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: A definition of design must also exclude as well as include Dear Terence: In the nascent scheme I am sketching and indeed argued in my little-read paper on the topic, aesthetics is at the core of design http://www.svid.se/en/Research/Design-Research-Journal/Research-articles/Research-articles-2017/What-is-it-like-to-see-a-bat/ The test of whether an object conforms to design ideals is "would you draw it like that?". Luckily as I understand engineering design, it passes that test. I hope this helps. Regards, Richard In response to: "Subject: Re: A definition of design must also exclude as well as include Hi Richard, Isn't aesthetics also one of those things outside of design? Best wishes, Terence ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------