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Well said Katie.

 

If you aren’t interested in a topic then set a rule to put them straight into deleted mail (takes about 30 secs).

 

The vast majority of emails that come through are not relevant to me (much as I would love to be an EE in the West Indies I am not in that subject) but I just delete them.

 

I find it refreshing when we have discussions rather than just adverts (important though they are) so I would ask that we keep the discussion.

 

Now back to my marking!

 

 

Chris

 

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From: External examiners discussion forum <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Katie Akerman
Sent: 15 May 2019 14:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 'Over-marking'...

 

Hello Hannah,

 

This is an external examiners’ discussion forum, though – if a discussion forum cannot discuss…?

 

Kind regards,

Katie

 

From: External examiners discussion forum <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of BOWS, HANNAH J.
Sent: 15 May 2019 14:14
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 'Over-marking'...

 

 

This message originated from outside of the University of Chichester. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Dear all,

 

Is it possible for this conversation to continue outside of this mailing list please? I’m receiving several emails per day about this discussion which I’m not part of and have no wish to be involved in.

 

Many thanks,

 

Hannah

Dr Hannah Bows

Assistant Professor in Criminal Law

Durham Law School

Durham University

 

Apologies for typos or misspelling - on iPhone/iPad and heavily rely on autocorrect! 


On 15 May 2019, at 14:12, Mohammad Mayouf <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi,

 

This ‘over/under marking’ issue is ongoing, and it’s really difficult to make a total fair mark. This is probably where American Education System excels, as there is a clear breakdown of marks so that students become less likely to complain.

 

Especially in the case of coursework (reports, essays, research papers, etc.), how do we establish a baseline to start judging whether a student deserves a 2:2, 2:1 or 1st. From my experience, the assessment criteria is often vague, overly general and do not reflect the assessment’s elements. There are many questions to ask here about marking, and this becomes more complex when it comes to other subjects.

 

Kind regards

Mo

 

Dr. Mohammad Mayouf (Mo)

PhD, MSc, PGCert, BSc, CAPM, FHEA

Lecturer in Construction Management

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Birmingham City University-Faculty of Computing, Engineering and Built Environment (CEBE) 

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From: External examiners discussion forum <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Berrais, Abbes
Sent: 15 May 2019 13:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 'Over-marking'...

 

Hi Geoffrey

 

I think marking is a “judgment, not a measurement”.

Research has shown that different academics (including external examiners) end up awarding hugely different marks for the same set of assignments/essays.

So what is considered as “over-marking” for academic A, may be is “under-marking” for another academic, especially for descriptive assignment such as Law, History, Psychology, etc.?

The question is: Is there a “correct” mark for an assignment?

I think we need to recognize that application for assessment criteria is a complex judgment, and marking is “judgment, not a measurement”.

 

Regards,

 

Abbes

 

Dr Abbes Berrais

Ingenieure D’etat, MSc (Eng), PhD, PgCTL, MASCE, FHEA

Senior Lecturer in Structural Engineering

Programme Leader & Admissions Tutor for MSc Civil Engineering

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Bolton BL3 5AB

UK

Tel: 01204 903837

Email: [log in to unmask]

 

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From: External examiners discussion forum <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Darnton
Sent: 15 May 2019 11:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 'Over-marking'...

 

THOSE WHO USE THIS DISCUSSION FORUM ONLY FOR EXTERNAL EXAMINER JOB ADVERTS CAN DELETE THIS EMAIL - IF YOU LIKE EE RELEVANT DISCUSSIONS, CONTINUE.

Dear William,

You have opened the potential for a fascinating discussion topic about marking!

I'm not sure I can give a precise definition of "over-marking". When I use the term, I mean that I consider a piece of work to have been "over-marked" if the initial mark awarded is, in terms of my academic judgement, far too high. Generally, my academic judgement in such a case is affected substantially by the relevant level descriptors because they are part of the regulatory regime that applies to degree awarding institutions. 'Over-marking' can have another meaning - marking schemes are structured by the expected contents of the deliverable (assignment, dissertation, etc.) rather than the relevant level descriptors (e.g. 5% for introduction, 20% for literature revies,...)

Awarding marks is a matter of academic discretion, and in law, is generally considered 'non-justiciable' - that's why students can't appeal against academic judgement - and anyone else who interferes with a marker's marks without consultation and agreement is at serious legal risk as upheld in the case of Buckland v Bournemouth University.

At levels 4-7 marks are usually ranked in some way with levels of classification. That does not happen at Level 8 (level 12 in Scotland) when a PhD is either passed or not - no marks or grades. More research is needed on the general acceptability of grades, but I have seen no examples where the results of assessment at levels 4-7 are only pass or fail (some components maybe).

Another research topic is how people decide marks. One American university with an outpost in Geneva had a pass mark of 90%! Therefore a mark of 89% yields crying - but a mark of 89% in the UK normally yields cheering! So markers decide if a piece of work is a pass or not, then how much of a pass and adjust that to the marking scheme in use.

For over-marking let me give you an example. I had a level-5 marketing module to moderate at an overseas partner institution. The assignment was for the students to select a company, then prepare a marketing mix. Most of the marks awarded were 1st (>70%). On inspection all the assignments had web only references with no books or journal papers. Some of the company material and analysis was excellent. I I decided they were over-marked - the absence of books and journal papers brought into question the absence of evidence of subject knowledge and understanding. It also meant there was a complete absence of critical thinking vis-a-vis key writers. The absence of key writers also meant that there was no applicability because there were no theories/ideas/concepts that could be applied. In my academic judgement based on the level descriptors most would fail - there could be some passes (3rds) for those where the discussion revealed sufficient implied subject knowledge and understanding. Many students made the error of trying to do a marketing mix for the company, and didn't select a particular product or service for which to do a marketing mix. Some had used website discussions of concepts but no discussion about the reliability of the sources. Many of the students simply interpreted the term marketing mix as '4Ps'! Therefore in my academic judgement many of the 1sts awarded were "over-marked" and should have been fail/pass.

For your residual questions: the key problem with over-marking is that it results in grade inflation misleading the student and other potential users of the grade information (other HE institutions, employers etc.) about the student's current subject knowledge and understanding.

I'll stop there. Plenty for people to comment on.

best wishes
Geoffrey

On 14/05/2019 13:12, William Keenan wrote:

Dear Geoffrey

I found your comment on 'over-marking' interesting. However, I confess that I don't know precisely what 'over-marking' refers to and why it should be regarded with disapproval.

Perhaps other colleagues, particularly fellow External Examiners, are in the same position. Is 'over-marking', like beauty' in the eye of the beholder? What is the 'over' over exactly?

I wonder if you would kindly take the time to define what 'over-marking' refers to; provide examples of it; and point out its deficiencies and drawbacks as you perceive them to be.

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this. Thank you.

With best wishes,

William

On May 14, 2019 12:06 PM, "Geoffrey Darnton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


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