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We need the HTCondor batch system anyway, so I suppose the pain is the CE.

We have yet to install it though which is why I am looking at options. We have to migrate away from CREAM and Torque+Maui as well as from SL6 to CC7.

I don't follow developments closely enough so I would appreciate advice on whether HTCondorCE is considered stable and ready for production, whether the documentation is good enough for a sysadmin (not a Grid expert) to install and maintain it, and where that documentation is.

I thought I heard that the accounting was not working yet for example?

We were previously thinking of ARC CE because it seemed the most popular but also upon investigation seems complicated to deploy.

It's not just the CE but also the accounting (apel), and sbdii, Argus - although the latter two may also be needed for storage?

If the CE is a single point of failure should we not run at least two?

Then setting up the vast number of pool accounts and other WN configuration.

CVMFS and squid we would need anyway for local users.

I think it would be helpful if there would be recommended (either GridPP or wider) options for all the services required of a Tier2 site.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Simon

From: Testbed Support for GridPP member institutes <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Sam Skipsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 12 February 2019 15:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: VAC with VM condor VM to support local batch jobs?

So, isn't that simple-lightweight system supposed to be an HTCondorCE,
if you believe its cheerleaders [assuming you use HTCondor as your
batch system]?

(Similarly, in general, "running things in predesigned virtual
machines" is a thing which HTCondor can do - and has been able to do
for a decade now - if what you like is the "uniform, single image"
aspect of VAC. Obviously, it's not as "hands-off" as VAC is - but,
again, that's part of the administrative/control tradeoff which VAC
sort of relies on.)

If you're using something which is not a HTCondor batch system, then
obviously HTCondorCEs are less useful! The question is: what's the
pain point for you: the CE, or the batch system?

Sam

P.S. I don't think "GridPP" as a monolithic body has a uniform recommendation.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 14:19, George, Simon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I see your point Sam.
>
> What seems to be missing is a simple, lightweight site option for all the grid services needed to interface to a local batch system.
>
> VAIB is a great solution except that we still want a local batch system. I guess most sites need that?
>
> I'm not clear what GridPP is recommending, because I thought it was VAIB.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Testbed Support for GridPP member institutes <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Sam Skipsey <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 12 February 2019 09:54
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: VAC with VM condor VM to support local batch jobs?
>
> So, my belief was that the entire point of VAC (originally) was to
> avoid needing a local batch system if you just want to support Grid
> jobs [ that is, that the VAC vms would precisely not support local job
> scheduling, because you can simplify a local site if all the
> "scheduling" happens at the remote end - in, for example, a DIRAC
> instance, or other VO-owned job-submission-to-pilots framework]. In
> general, I've always argued that if you have a need to support local
> users and run jobs locally, this justifies having an actual batch
> system.
>
> Sam
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 at 10:40, George, Simon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > And if not, how else do VAC sites make their resources available to local users?
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Testbed Support for GridPP member institutes <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of George, Simon <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: 04 February 2019 10:38
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: VAC with VM condor VM to support local batch jobs?
> >
> > I had no answers to this, so can I just check that this means literally no-one has tried or thought about this?
> > Thanks,
> > Simon
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: George, Simon
> > Sent: 28 January 2019 11:07
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: VAC with VM condor VM to support local batch jobs?
> >
> >
> > I'd like to know if anyone who runs VAC has tried using the VMcondor VM to get local batch jobs onto their VAC nodes?
> >
> > Or if not are you thinking about it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
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> >
> >
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