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Dear Terry I hope now you understand better why, a few years ago, on this list I literally 'harassed' you to explain - enlighten - to us why Maths were necessary to designers; and what kinds of Maths, and how these should be taught especially in 'design science' oriented schools. I have never got satisfying answers from you, and now I understand why! Your turn, you are insisting with similar question to Ursula and the list. Hopefully we both will get answers, or at least a hints, from proponents at Ulm - or their immediate and indirect students?- of 'mathematical analysis of operations: group theory, statistics, standardisation, scientific theories, mechanics: kinematic, dynamic and static". Thanks and best wishes, François On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:13 PM Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Thank you Claudia (and Ursula) and all, > > To explain my interest in this aspect of Ulm needs a little background. > > From the 1960s to the 1980s, I was mentored in design and design research > by a friend John Woollatt. > John was a very experienced industrial/engineering designer who studied > design research at the very first MSc in Design Methods taught by John > Chris Jones at UMIST in Manchester in the 1960s, and was one of the early > members of the DRS. Others on this list including Nigel will know him, > some may also have been John's mentees. > > Around 1970, John became an academic, teaching at Newcastle Polytechnic > Department of Design which morphed into the famous Northumbria University > design school that had amongst its students Sir Jonathan Ive (Apple) and > Tim Brown (IDEO). > > John's academic role was to teach the engineering and science aspects of > design: what at Ulm were listed as 'mathematical analysis of operations: > group theory, statistics, standardisation, scientific theories, mechanics: > kinematic, dynamic and static". This was to enable student designers to > start to be able to design the whole of a product, rather than just its > exterior. For example, in designing say a power tool or lawn mower, > previously the only role of the designer was as a stylist designing the > external appearance, with engineers designing all the functionality and > manufacturing. This Ulm like inclusion of science, engineering and maths > was a move to 'whole design' and away from product styling. > > In conversations over many years, John described the difficulties of > teaching design students at Northumbria the necessary science, engineering > and maths without them having sufficient backgrounds in these areas. He > said he was having to reduce the academic standard of teaching of > 'mathematical analysis of operations: group theory, statistics, > standardisation, scientific theories, mechanics: kinematic, dynamic and > static" to a level not much above primary school. > > John saw this as a major failing in design education because high level > skills in 'mathematical analysis of operations: group theory, statistics, > standardisation, scientific theories, mechanics: kinematic, dynamic and > static' at the level where mathematical theories become embodied provides > students with a much more accurate intuitive ability compared to > traditional awareness and perception of objects. This is evident because it > is possible to compare student's skills with students from engineering > design schools that teach designers this knowledge and skills. > > In discussions with others over the years, it appears many other design > schools have faced the same problem and many have resolved it simply by > dropping any attempt to teach students the science, mathematics and > engineering aspects of product design as being too difficult. > > My interest, therefore, following Ursula's information about Ulm is > whether it is possible to answer the question 'Did Ulm managed to address > this problem and teach as 'mathematical analysis of operations: group > theory, statistics, standardisation, scientific theories, mechanics: > kinematic, dynamic and static at the level expected of science, maths and > engineering graduates'. And, if so, how and what were the results? ' > > If Ulm did manage this, it has relevance for design education in many > design schools. > > Best wishes, > Terry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------