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Hi Everyone, First post to the list [image: đŹ] I was trying to explain green access options to a colleague recently and we were scrutinizing the publisher agreement of his accepted journal article. This guy is smart but he was pretty bamboozled and as a consequence has still not published a green version of his manuscript. The academic literature seems to use different language to that of the publishers. The open access academic literature talks about pre and post prints, which seem pretty neutral. However, the publishers talk about the Version of Record which sounds more value-laden to me. It kind of says: this is the Real True Version and all the other versions are some lesser shabby versions. Which can perhaps put people publishing pre-prints (green access). There is also the issue that the pre-print (or Author Original Manuscript in publisher jargon) may be substantially different from the final published version. This is what put my colleague off archiving a pre-print in the end: he felt that he had made so many changes following the reviewers' feedback that the pre-print was not the "real" article and was too different to the published one. I published an article a few years ago about Moodle in the the Journal of Open Learning. I was delighted with myself! Then a friend who works in Moodle told me she were trying to access the article but were being asked to pay $45. She said: âSo youâve written an article called âOpening up to Open Source: Looking at how Moodle was adopted in Higher Educationâ in a journal called âOpen Learningâ but the article is not actually open access?â âEhâŠ. yesâ I stuttered. (AAAH CRINGE!). I did publish then put a pre-print versio of the article in my institutional repository. Moreover, the journal made the article free to access for a while, such as during openeducation week. Great, I thought, now my article is open. But afterwards I realised that it wasnât really. It was âfreeâ to read on the journal website but not forever and not actually true open access. More FoureĂ© or fake open access. I wrote a commentary about this recently. The article is not too long but I also tweeted the key points: https://twitter.com/eam0/status/1100126769057853442 Really looking forward to the special issue in Distance Education on OEP and hope you figure out some open access options. Best wishes, Eamon On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 11:10 AM Leo Havemann <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi Maha, > > I think we are on the same page here, I agree green OA versions can be > less discoverable, but just to clarify as I said before there is no embargo > period for uploading a preprint to an institutional repository, personal > website, academic social network, wherever you wish. > > Best > Leo > > On 6 Feb 2019, at 16:20, Maha Bali <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Thank you Javiera that offers a really good and concise summary on gold > and green OA. > > I'm just going to add a couple of points. > > I am able to hold all the following views in parallel > > A. I respect the editors of this CfP and their efforts to try to make this > issue OA, because I believe in advocating for OA even where green OA exists > especially when topic is open edu. > > B. I usually use Sherpa Romeo (though of course publisher website also) to > check the green OA policy of journals. While one can use green OA - > researchers searching and seeking an OA version of an article don't always > know where to look. Google scholar is good at finding these green OA > versions of course so hopefully more people find them. However, they are > easier to find if posted on institutional or subject repositories - and for > many journals incl DE, there is an embargo period on those (the Author > post-print version that is not the final publisher version): > http://www.sherpa.ac.uk/romeo/search.php?issn=0158-7919&type=issn&la=en&fIDnum=|&mode=simple > > I don't think I've misunderstood this particular case... but correct me if > i am wrong. > > Maha > > Maha Bali, PhD > Associate Professor of Practice, Center for Learning and Teaching, > American University in Cairo > http://blog.mahabali.me > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2019, 4:16 PM Javiera Atenas < > [log in to unmask] wrote: > >> Dear community >> >> Please see linked a beginners guide to Open Access, so we can avoid >> further confusion, and hence, have more informed discussions, as if you >> write a paper for this (or any other journal - book) you can always deposit >> your pre-print in your website or repository >> https://wonkhe.com/blogs/intro-to-open-access/ >> >> If anyone is still not very familiar with how open access works, we would >> be happy to share some more guidelines, so you can further become >> acquainted on how fellow open movements operate. >> >> Regards >> >> Javiera >> >> On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 at 13:54, 'Maha Bali' via Open Education Platform < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Ah. I always thought the Author Manuscript also had an embargo period >>> before it can be on an institutional Repository... >>> >>> Maha Bali, PhD >>> Associate Professor of Practice, Center for Learning and Teaching, >>> American University in Cairo >>> http://blog.mahabali.me >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019, 3:49 PM Leo Havemann <[log in to unmask] wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I think it is important to distinguish between Author's Original >>>> Manuscript (AOM), i.e, preprint, and Accepted Manuscript, ie Postprint (the >>>> difference between these versions is extremely subtle). >>>> >>>> T&F advise: >>>> Authorâs Original Manuscript (AOM) >>>> >>>> *The AOM is your original manuscript (often called a âpreprintâ). You >>>> can share this as much as you like. If you do decide to post it anywhere, >>>> including on a scholarly collaboration network, we would recommend you use >>>> an amended version of the wording below to encourage usage and citation of >>>> your final, published article (the Version of Record).* >>>> >>>> These can be uploaded at at any time to any site. >>>> >>>> Whereas some of their journals including DE have an embargo for 18 >>>> months for institutional and subject repositories for the AM version (but >>>> no embargo for putting this on personal website). >>>> >>>> More info - >>>> https://authorservices.taylorandfrancis.com/sharing-your-work >>>> >>>> Still awaiting response regarding possible Gold OA/APC waiver question! >>>> >>>> Best >>>> >>>> Leo >>>> >>>> On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 at 13:39, Maha Bali <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Leo (and Suzan and Aras) >>>>> >>>>> Would it be possible to lower the embargo period to 0 for green OA (I >>>>> assume personal website has no embargo but institutional repository or >>>>> things like ResearchGate has an embargo period). >>>>> >>>>> Or do you have hope they would offer it OA? My experience with LMT is >>>>> that they usually don't agree to that... >>>>> >>>>> I also wonder if you told the publisher about prominent people in OEP >>>>> field preferring to publish open... if that would shift their perspective >>>>> at all? Though they must already know this... >>>>> >>>>> APCs completely unaffordable to me but a book I'm authoring a chapter >>>>> in allowed me to make my chapter OA for no APCs. OA spaces that take APCs >>>>> have given me waivers before (not LMT which is a T&F journal i think like >>>>> DE). >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Maha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maha Bali, PhD >>>>> Associate Professor of Practice, Center for Learning and Teaching, >>>>> American University in Cairo >>>>> http://blog.mahabali.me >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019, 2:31 PM Robert Schuwer <[log in to unmask] >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Leo, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your reply. I rercognize your struggle of on the one hand >>>>>> being eager on publishing OA and on the other hand the wonderful >>>>>> opportunity you have in editing this special issue. It made me realize that >>>>>> I have a bit of a luxury position on this. Having a few years left before >>>>>> my retirement, I have no obligations to publish to advance my career, and >>>>>> therefore can be selective in which journal to publish. This makes me feel >>>>>> kind of commenting from the side line on this issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have looked on the OA policy of this journal and maybe something >>>>>> can be done on this. Their APC for this journal is in the range of >>>>>> $2000-$3000 per article, depending on the region the lead author lives. I >>>>>> expect you as editors are not paid for this job, so maybe this APC can be >>>>>> lowered to a more realistic value (whatever that may be) for this special >>>>>> issue. Publishing research articles in a green OA version has an embargo >>>>>> period of 18 months (!) which seems also rather long for this special >>>>>> issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert Schuwer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Op di 5 feb. 2019 om 19:57 schreef Leo Havemann < >>>>>> [log in to unmask]>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks John for circulating the call for proposals, and Robert and >>>>>>> Maha for your comments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On behalf of my special issue co-editors Suzan Kozeoglu and Aras >>>>>>> Bozkurt, as well as myself, I would just like to say we are delighted to >>>>>>> have the opportunity to put together a special issue focused on OEP in the >>>>>>> context of Open and Distance Learning, and consideration of critical >>>>>>> perspectives. We believe that Distance Education is a great journal with a >>>>>>> long history of publishing important work in this field and we are grateful >>>>>>> to have this chance to define the topic for a special issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are also aware that some people will feel they would rather >>>>>>> publish in OA venues and we respect that. Of course we agree it would be >>>>>>> excellent if scholarly publishing in general had resolved the economics of >>>>>>> publishing in favour of fully funded, Gold OA without article processing >>>>>>> charges (APCs), and if this journal was OA, but at the current time it is a >>>>>>> hybrid journal (in other words it offers the option to make articles Gold >>>>>>> OA via APCs, which clearly is not affordable to all scholars), and supports >>>>>>> Green OA for all other articles (in other words, authors can make a >>>>>>> pre-print available via an institutional repository or personal website >>>>>>> with no embargo period, which can then be discovered via the use of >>>>>>> google scholar or the unpaywall extension, for example). This is less ideal >>>>>>> than instant Gold OA and for this reason we have asked the journal about >>>>>>> the possibility of making this an OA issue, and we are hoping it will be >>>>>>> possible. Whether this request is successful or not, this time, we feel >>>>>>> that it is worthwhile making it and putting the issue on the radar of the >>>>>>> editorial board. Over time we hope to see many journals flip to OA but the >>>>>>> societies which run them need to develop alternative revenue models to make >>>>>>> this happen. In the meantime we believe it is important to adopt Green OA >>>>>>> practices to ensure papers are available to the widest possible audience. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best wishes >>>>>>> Leo Havemann >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Digital Education Advisor, UCL / Postgraduate Researcher, Open >>>>>>> University >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 at 12:49, 'Maha Bali' via Open Education Platform >>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, at the moment, I was told it would not be OA but I >>>>>>>> think they are trying. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's really annoying that they even have to ask. It should be >>>>>>>> default: if you're having a special issue about open, the papers should be >>>>>>>> open. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maha Bali, PhD >>>>>>>> Associate Professor of Practice, Center for Learning and Teaching, >>>>>>>> American University in Cairo >>>>>>>> http://blog.mahabali.me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019, 2:15 PM Robert Schuwer < >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The $1000 question is of course: will this issue be published >>>>>>>>> Open Access? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Op ma 4 feb. 2019 12:34 schreef John Okewole <[log in to unmask]: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bea de los Arcos tweeted about this information piece which I >>>>>>>>>> found noteworthy to share in the community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Distance Education >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/cdie20/current> the official >>>>>>>>>> journal of the Open and Distance Learning Association of Australia Inc. >>>>>>>>>> (ODLAA) calls for proposal in this Special Issue on *Open >>>>>>>>>> Education Practices*. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Read more about the call and the timelines here >>>>>>>>>> <https://think.taylorandfrancis.com/distance-education-si-open-educational-practices/?utm_source=CPB_think&utm_medium=cms&utm_campaign=JOA08090#?utm_source=CPB&utm_medium=cms&utm_campaign=JOA08090> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With gratitude, >>>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OKEWOLE, John Taiwo >>>>>>>>>> Yaba College of Technology >>>>>>>>>> Lagos, Nigeria >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mobile: +2348024600470 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #Commonwealth Scholar >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have not gotten to where you are going, you don't stop >>>>>>>>>> moving! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> This is the list for the Creative Commons Open Education Platform. >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Open Education Platform" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/cc-openedu. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> This is the list for the Creative Commons Open Education Platform. >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Open Education Platform" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/cc-openedu. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> This is the list for the Creative Commons Open Education Platform. >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Open Education Platform" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/cc-openedu. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [image: --] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Leo Havemann >>>>>>> [image: https://]about.me/leohavemann >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://about.me/leohavemann?promo=email_sig&utm_source=email_sig&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=external_links> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> This is the list for the Creative Commons Open Education Platform. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Open Education Platform" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/cc-openedu. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> This is the list for the Creative Commons Open Education Platform. >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Open Education Platform" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [log in to unmask] >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/cc-openedu. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [image: --] >>>> >>>> Leo Havemann >>>> [image: https://]about.me/leohavemann >>>> >>>> <https://about.me/leohavemann?promo=email_sig&utm_source=email_sig&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=external_links> >>>> >>> -- >>> This is the list for the Creative Commons Open Education Platform. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Open Education Platform" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [log in to unmask] >>> To post to this group, send email to [log in to unmask] >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/cc-openedu. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Javiera Atenas, Ph.D >> Investigadora Principal / Principal Researcher >> Coordinadora de EducaciĂłn / Education Lead >> Iniciativa Latinoamericana por los Datos Abiertos/ Open Data Latin >> American Initiative >> www.idatosabiertos.org <http://www.idatosabiertos.org> >> > _______________________________________________ > open-education mailing list > [log in to unmask] > https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education > -- *Dr. Eamon Costello* Open Education Unit, National Institute for Digital Learning Dublin City University | Dublin 9 | Ireland +353 1 700 8793 Office: Room DG03, Bea Orpen Building Web: *https://www.dcu.ie/connected/people/eamon-costello.shtml <https://www.dcu.ie/connected/people/eamon-costello.shtml>* DCU Connected: http://connected.dcu.ie -- * *SĂ©anadh RĂomhphoist/Email Disclaimer* *TĂĄ an rĂomhphost seo agus aon chomhad a sheoltar leis faoi rĂșn agus is lena ĂșsĂĄid ag an seolaĂ agus sin amhĂĄin Ă©. 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