medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Richard, the "humped" river Jordan is not standard, but also not that unusual.
See the Baptism page of my archive:
www.kornbluthphoto.com/Baptism.html
and the Codex Egberti:
https://cynthiahindes.blogspot.com/search/label/John%203%3A22%20-36
best,
Genevra

On 9/25/2018 10:50 AM, Richard Legault wrote:
[log in to unmask]" type="cite">medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Having no German, I can't get much from the caption of Karl's Müstair fresco. Nevertheless, for a work of Carolingian(?) vintage, the perspective of the flowing Jordan, receding and narrowing into the background is outstanding. I love it. There is also the oddly 'humped' wavy lines of water in the other baptism of Jesus done in stucco relief. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_John_Abbey,_M%C3%BCstair#/media/File:Benediktinerkloster_St._Johann_Relief.JPG

Karl also makes a good point about the God figure in the Left tympanum of the Chartres Royal Portal. It could just as easily be Christ in contemplation of Creation as God the Father. In the case of Christ, the  text of reference would be John 1:1-3 where Christ is identified as the Word (Logos) and, in the beginning, the agent of Creation: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." However, there is no instance in the New Testament of Christ appearing in a whirlwind. That is why I think the imagery of Job is more relevant to the understanding of the oddly angled wavy lines and the body posture of the flanking angels. In any case, to any community faithful to the theology of the Trinity, as were the Chartrians of c.1145 CE, the point is moot.

Thank you Karl for pointing this out. I'll need to amend my draft accordingly.

Cheers,
Richard J Legault


On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 2:51 AM Karl Brunner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture


Consider the sculpture of the Sign of  Pisces in the rightmost archivolt of the Royal Portal at Chartres. There, I think it is clear the wavy lines at the bottom are water - the context is Pisces the Fish. However, look to the leftmost tympanum and consider the wavy lines under the feet of the God figure, that rise obliquely on either side of Him. I just cannot see these oblique wavy lines as water. Nor do I think they represent cloud. Because of the their very bizarre shape, and the context of the posture of the flanking angels,  I think there is a good case to be made that these particular wavy lines represent wind - a whirlwind, I think, of the kind described in Job.   

But sometimes these wavy lines are indeed waves - from the baptism of Christ in the Jordan, and I am sure, it is Christ here, as supreme judge like often over the western door. 

For the baptism cf. e. g. the funny picture at the frescoes in Müstair http://www.al-fresko.ch/die-taufe-jesu-im-jordan-epiphanie-der-ostkirche/ 

Best
Karl, Vienna
 

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