And it’s precisely because of the reporting methods of Cochrane that these conversations can (and should) take place.

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Sep 2018, at 16:07, Juan Gérvas <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Crisis? What crisis?
Cochrane Collaboration is not experiencing a crisis of either morality or democracy. Its brand, now as ever, stands for rigour, independence, and a commitment to using science to achieve high-quality patient care and social justice. We should cut it some slack while it gets its house in order.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/09/17/trish-greenhalgh-the-cochrane-collaboration-what-crisis/
El lun., 17 sept. 2018 a las 16:48, Bill Cayley, Jr (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:
I appreciate Jim McCormack's thoughts... Evidence based medicine needs to be about discussion of the EVIDENCE. Clearly personal feeling and perspectives come into play in ANY interpretation of information (scientific evidence included) but for the good of all we need to aim for clear, transparent, and (hopefully) dispassionate discussion of the merits of evidence...

Tx

Bill Cayley, Jr, MD MDiv

[log in to unmask]

[log in to unmask]

http://twitter.com/bcayley

Work: 715.286.2270

Pager: 715.838.7940

Mobile: 715.828.4636

A cheerful heart is good medicine... (Proverbs 17:22)
On Monday, September 17, 2018 2:38 AM, "McCormack, James" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
It’s all too bad this happened - really nothing good comes from the original actions and then the response, as it brings into question the validity of both sides within and outside academic circles.
When I hear people (and there are a number who do this - including outside Cochrane) making statements such as “we are in a war against the drug industry” or use the term “organized crime” or that the “regulators at the FDA don’t care” or our comments are "acid” it always worries me that the objectivity of the individual may be compromised.

When people feel they are in a war, some people will do things that are improper or questionable because they might think the ends justify the means.

Obviously just because these sorts of phrases are used doesn’t mean the person is for sure compromised - just when I see this type of aggression I worry about it - just like I need to consider motives when there is any other type of conflict of interest. People with COIs can definitely be very objective but I still need to consider the COI.

As much as possible, any Cochrane communication (and really any scientific communication) should NOT include any critical comments about a person or a groups intent or impugn any researcher or scientific group - unless you have a study/clear evidence to prove the truth of the caustic comments.

Unfortunately, I believe this type of action will always raise its head in science disputes - all I can tell you is that if you are someone who does that, your message becomes suspect because I worry about your objectivity. That is unfortunate because likely your message is very important and valid.

This is not meant to be a criticism but rather a suggestion that if you want people like me to really buy into your arguments and findings you very much hurt your cause by your aggressive rhetoric.

Hope this makes sense.

James
On Sep 16, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Juan Gérvas <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Cochrane on fire. One of the medical world’s most respected expert bodies is in turmoil as its annual meeting gets underway in Edinburgh, Scotland, after its governing board voted to expel a member.

La Cochrane arde tras la expulsión de Peter C Gøtzsche
https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/16/expulsion-cochrane-peter-gotzsche-medicine/
El dom., 16 sept. 2018 a las 22:58, Juan Gérvas (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:
-for those who read French

https://twitter.com/MartinFierro769/status/1041420379170979841

8 L'épisode de la critique de la revue Cochrane par Peter Gotzsche est bien la goutte qui a fait déborder le vase et emmené le CEO à réclamer des mesures définitives contre P Gotzsche. Mais celui-ci n'est pas isolé. Il a seulement dit tout haut ce que bp pensaient tout bas.

-for those who read Spanish:

-Cochrane pierde credibilidad científica y social por la deficiente gestión de las críticas a su revisión sobre la vacuna del papiloma (VPH)
http://www.nogracias.eu/2018/09/15/cochrane-pierde-credibilidad-cientifica-social-la-deficiente-gestion-las-criticas-revision-la-vacuna-del-papiloma-vph/
-La regeneración de Cochrane
http://www.nogracias.eu/2018/09/16/la-regeneracion-cochrane/
-COCHRANE EXPULSA A PETER GOTZSCHE
http://www.nogracias.eu/2018/09/15/cochrane-expulsa-peter-gotzsche/
-No es sólo una guerra en Cochrane. Es general de los mercaderes de la ciencia para silenciar al que habla. "Es corrupción organizada, y nos intentan cerrar la boca a todos los que hablamos".
Sobre la expulsión de Peter C. Gøtzsche.
http://muscleblog.es/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3809

-un saludo juan gérvas @JuanGrvas
El dom., 16 sept. 2018 a las 19:51, Juan Gérvas (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:
“Cochrane has become too sensitive to criticism of the pharmaceutical industry”.
Cochrane’s sinking ship.
Scientific censorship.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2018/09/16/cochrane-a-sinking-ship/
El dom., 16 sept. 2018 a las 19:25, Juan Gérvas (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:
RESIGNS. The chief editor of @cochranecollab David Tovey @DavidTovey, author of the Cochrane reply to Lars Jørgensen, Peter C Gøtzsche and Tom Jefferson critical review about VPH vaccine, resigns.

Tovey D, Soares-Weiser K. Response to BMJ Evidence Based Medicine article criticizing the Cochrane Review of HPV vaccines. Sep 2018.
El dom., 16 sept. 2018 a las 17:30, Juan Gérvas (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:
Cochrane Regeneration
After the serious crisis opened in Cochrane by the expulsion of Peter C. Gøtzsche and the resignation of four members of the Governing Board comes this proposal from people in the critical environment of the organization.
State of play: proposals for Annual General Meeting and strategy for a regeneration of Cochrane.

http://www.nogracias.eu/2018/09/16/cochran-regeneration/

-un saludo juan gérvas @JuanGrvas
El dom., 16 sept. 2018 a las 12:09, Kelleher, Kevin (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:
This debate will be one where evidence will not feature rather one's preordained stance is the only determinate of "the truth"

PS I am extremely pro vaccines but no clue which side here is correct if either is anyway

Dr Kevin Kelleher
AND for Public Health and Child Health
Director, Health Protection Surveillance Centre
Strategic Planning and Transformation
HSE
061483347
MCRN 19719

From: Juan Gérvas
Sent: ‎15/‎09/‎2018 23:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Peter C Gøtzsche, expelled from the Cochrane

Message from the Governing Board
25th Cochrane Colloquium, Edinburgh. The Governing Board looks forward to welcoming nearly 1,300 participants from 57 countries to celebrate our theme of ‘Cochrane for all: better evidence for better health decisions’.

https://www.cochrane.org/news/message-governing-board

According to the minutes of the previous Cochrane Governing Board June 13 teleconference https://community.cochrane.org/organizational-info/people/governing-board/agenda-and-minutes … Members who remain: Martin Burton, Candy Farquar, Janet Clakson, Maria Gladys Faba, Gerald Gartehner, Marguerite Koster, Raewyn Lamb and Catherine Marshall

El sáb., 15 sept. 2018 a las 19:18, Juan Gérvas (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:

Who left the Board in Edinburgh?
>
> Joerg Meerpohl, Director, German Cochrane Centre
> Gerald Gartlehner, Director, Austrian Cochrane Centre
> Peter Gøtzsche, Director, Nordic Cochrane Centre
> Nancy Santesso, Super User, Canadian Cochrane Centre
> David Hammerstein, civil society advocate for the Commons Network

El sáb., 15 sept. 2018 a las 18:24, Vasiliy Vlassov (<[log in to unmask]>) escribió:

Some people were displeased with my acid comment on the editors
response to the critical article.

I hope you now rethink it

VVV

On 2018-09-15 18:29, Jon Brassey wrote:
> Perhaps I shouldn't find humour in this, but the hashtag for the
> Cochrane Colloquium is #CochraneForAll
>
> #irony
>

--
\/.\/.\/.

Vasiliy V. Vlassov, MD
President, Society for Evidence Based Medicine, osdm.org
Professor, National Research University Higher School of Economics
e-mail: vlassov[a t]cochrane.ru
Web page https://www.hse.ru/en/org/persons/14527416
snail mail: P.O.Box 13 Moscow 109451 Russia
Phone Russia +7(965)2511021

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