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Well IME, as someone recovering from a "schizophrenia" diagnosis, it can be. Luke On 12 May 2018 at 21:35, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > All written language is a foreign language. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Luke > Sent: May 12, 2018 4:11 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: on verbs in poetry > > > The language of authenticity is a learned behavior. > > And Ashbery's "language"? > > Luke > > On 12 May 2018 at 20:10, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> The language of authenticity is a learned behavior. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Bircumshaw >> Sent: May 12, 2018 2:32 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: on verbs in poetry >> >> Yes.Tristan. But for instance Peter Porter wrote poems about losing his >> wife. Surely those were equally authentic. >> >> >> >> On 12 May 2018 at 18:56, Tristan Moss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> She lost an adult son. Read the poem by Riley Luke. Here’s a link to it. >>> https://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n03/denise-riley/a-part-song >>> >>> She just has a great way with words and the ability to choose just the >>> right one. Of course, this adds to the authenticity of the voice. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 May 2018, at 18:31, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> Not suggesting that you haven't! Just suggesting that one can't decide >>> from your description, anymore than you can from knowing the Riley's (or at >>> least, the author) lost a baby. >>> >>> Luke >>> >>> On 12 May 2018 at 18:29, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> Surely it's impossible to say without reading it >>>> >>>> > Tom Paulin, an otherwise fan, regarded it as 'adolescent'. >>>> >>>> Luke >>>> >>>> On 12 May 2018 at 09:02, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This interesting Tim, and knotty, but it has the feel of real >>>>> discussion. One might almost say authentic :) >>>>> >>>>> DH Lawrence could well be called authentic. Yet he was also rhetorical >>>>> and pretentious, all those dark gods that had no place wandering the >>>>> streets of an imagination made a bus ride from Nottingham. >>>>> >>>>> Is Peter Reading's 'C' authentic? A hundred pieces of prose behaving >>>>> like poems each a hundred words long written in a style au naturel but as >>>>> artificial and calculated as a wedding song by Spenser. A fake fiction >>>>> about cancer by a man who once had it and another time would die from it. >>>>> Tom Paulin, an otherwise fan, regarded it as 'adolescent'. >>>>> >>>>> Are the best-selling Birthday Letters authentic?? Is Maya Angelou >>>>> ditto? >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11 May 2018 at 11:44, Tim Allen <0000002899e7d020-dmarc-reques >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes exactly Luke, the 'how' is still missing, at least in the sense >>>>>> of describing a 'how' that was special to Riley. I used the word >>>>>> 'authentic' because of its innate problems - it is one of the most >>>>>> difficult terms to use when applied to the arts, but nevertheless I think >>>>>> my use of it in the context of Riley is 'authentic'. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perceptions of and identifying authenticity in music is an even more >>>>>> contentious - the process that leads from authentic feeling and expression >>>>>> first to model/form then to simulacrum and finally to soulless golem (e.g. >>>>>> x factor or whatever) is almost impossible to untangle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Tim >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11 May 2018, at 02:03, Luke wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm still missing a *how*. No-one is innately authentic, so how does >>>>>> one go about it? Incidentally. I was recently listening to Kurt Cobain, of >>>>>> Nirvana, ha, and it struck me so, also. So not limited to poetry, anyway! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >