medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

I saw one reference to ringing "the great bell" at the elevation.

Tom Izbicki

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of John Shinners <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 10:03:41 AM
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Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
John H. Arnold and Caroline Goodson have an informative article, "Resounding Community: the History and Meaning of Medieval Church Bells," in Viator 43 No. 1 (2012) 99–130, which is available online as a pdf in several places, for instance at Academia.edu (!). It answers some of the questions raised in this thread but not the mention a restriction on the number of bells. It does mention that three was a recommended minimum, at least according to John Pecham's statues from c. 1279 or so: “tintinnabulo [for the Consecration, etc. I assume],” “campane manuales pro mortuis,” and “campane in campanile et corde ad easdem.”

http://www.academia.edu/1431766/with_John_Arnold_Resounding_Community_The_History_and_Meaning_of_Medieval_Church_Bells_Viator_43.1_January_2012_99_130

And I share Gordon's praise for Tom's book on the Eucharist in Canon Law. It's a goldmine.

Best,
John


On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Gordon Plumb <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Tom

Thank you for that - btw I have just finished reading your book on the Eucharist in Medieval Canon Law and greatly enjoyed and profited from it.

Gordon Plumb


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Izbicki <[log in to unmask]EDU>
To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]AC.UK>
Sent: Tue, Feb 6, 2018 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

I did some research on bells for my book on the Eucharist. There were bells to alert the faithful outside the church that the elevation was occurring. Also for the Angelus. There are several references in Councils and Synods, vol. 2, ed. Powicke & Cheney. Also a few in Lyndewood's Provinciale. [This is apart from the sacring bells rung inside and the small bell used in taking viaticum to the sick.]

One visitation found the bells hanging in a tree. Clergy and laity occasional;ly squabbled over who repaired ropes & belfries.

I never saw a limit on the number of bells.

Tom Izbicki

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <MEDIEVAL-[log in to unmask]AC.UK> on behalf of David Critchley <00001abf58570718-dmarc-reques[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 7:01:45 AM
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Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

John Harvey, Mediaeval Craftsmen (1975), pp. 90-91, deals with bell founders. "By the opening of the fourteenth century Walter of Odington, monk of Evesham and musical theoretician, had devised a system for making each bell in a peal weigh 8/9ths of the next larger bell." Does that imply that the ideal peal consisted of 9 bells? The issue is obviously linked with the origins of change-ringing, but prima facie all the English churches which enlarged their belfries over the 14th-16th centuries did so to accommodate a larger number of bells, and the most obvious reason for wanting more bells is that it enables more adventurous change-ringing.

David J. Critchley


On 06/02/2018 11:29, Gordon Plumb wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Like Rosemany I must confess to having never heard of this limitation. Can anyone please give chapter and verse in Canon Law for this? It seems on the face of it very odd!

Gordon Plumb


-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan <[log in to unmask]>
To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]AC.UK>
Sent: Tue, Feb 6, 2018 10:43 am
Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Does it say anything about the status of the church?  Is there anything those with more bells have in common?  Are they prebendal churches, the head church of a deanery/archdeaconry, collegiate churches, churches with lots of chantries? Or is it random?
 
Have to admit I didn't know you were only allowed 3. If three, three of what kind?  Fixed?  Presumably, there was no limit on the sort of hand bells that are rung at the consecration - or was there?
 
Rosemary Hayes
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From: [log in to unmask]" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"> Anne Willis
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Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

No, I don’t think there would be ‘bells in reserve’ as it were.  The Edwardian Inventories were taken to clarify the state of church goods, and if a church had seven bells, they would have said so. 

 

Having said that ‘bells [in the steeple] to be rongen with oone accorde’ (a comment on several Shropshire churches in 1549) were not the only bells in the church.  There would often be a Sanctus bell, which might be with the other bells in the tower, or in a bellcote over the chancel by itself.  (Keevil, Wiltshire has a good example of this.  See http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/WIL/Keevil/StLeonard.html where the bellcote is between the chancel and the nave and seems to be trying to hide behind a leaf.). 

There might also be ‘ a sacryng belle’ and/or a ‘corse belle’ which would be handbells to ring during Mass or before a burial (I assume.  Correct me if I am wrong).  These may be the same as the ‘lyttel bellis’, that are sometimes mentioned.  In the Shropshire inventories there is also the occasional clock bell.

 

Abdon, Shropshire had ‘nine bells on a wheel’. John Aubrey describes some I think at Kington St Michael, Wiltshire.  These were small bells which were shaken at some point during a Mass.

 

Anne

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of David Winter
Sent: 05 February 2018 18:31
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Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells

 

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Also a guess, but is there a distinction between ownership and use? Could you have 7 bells so long as you only used 3 or fewer at any given time?

 

David R. Winter

Associate Professor and Chair,

Department of History,

Brandon University

 

phone: (001) 204-720-1435

fax: (001) 204-726-0473

 

 

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [MEDIEVAL-[log in to unmask]AC.UK] on behalf of Jane Stemp Wickenden [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 February 2018 11:51
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Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture This is a wild guess (my knowledge of bells is post-Stedman) but could bells specially donated for a soul's sake / chantry bells have been excluded from the rule?

Jane

On 5 February 2018 16:55:58 GMT+00:00, Anne Willis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Does anyone know of any reason why parish churches in England exceeded the three bells permitted under Canon Law?

 

If you look at the Edwardian surveys for a county a number of churches will have four or five bells in their towers, though the majority will have one to three.

 

The five bell towers in Wiltshire, and probably Shropshire, can be attributed to various local conditions, but how did the parish get away with it?  It was cathedrals who were allowed five or more bells.

 

And was there any particular reason for having four bells?

 

Anne

 

 

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John Shinners 
Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies Emeritus 
Saint Mary's College 
Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 
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"Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141)
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