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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture John H. Arnold and Caroline Goodson have an informative article, "Resounding Community: the History and Meaning of Medieval Church Bells," in *Viator *43 No. 1 (2012) 99–130, which is available online as a pdf in several places, for instance at Academia.edu (!). It answers some of the questions raised in this thread but not the mention a restriction on the number of bells. It does mention that three was a recommended minimum, at least according to John Pecham's statues from c. 1279 or so: “tintinnabulo [for the Consecration, etc. I assume],” “campane manuales pro mortuis,” and “campane in campanile et corde ad easdem.” http://www.academia.edu/1431766/with_John_Arnold_Resounding_Community_The_History_and_Meaning_of_Medieval_Church_Bells_Viator_43.1_January_2012_99_130 And I share Gordon's praise for Tom's book on the Eucharist in Canon Law. It's a goldmine. Best, John On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Gordon Plumb < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Tom > > Thank you for that - btw I have just finished reading your book on the > Eucharist in Medieval Canon Law and greatly enjoyed and profited from it. > > Gordon Plumb > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Izbicki <[log in to unmask]> > To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Tue, Feb 6, 2018 1:31 pm > Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > I did some research on bells for my book on the Eucharist. There were > bells to alert the faithful outside the church that the elevation was > occurring. Also for the Angelus. There are several references in *Councils > and Synods*, vol. 2, ed. Powicke & Cheney. Also a few in Lyndewood's > *Provinciale*. [This is apart from the sacring bells rung inside and the > small bell used in taking viaticum to the sick.] > > One visitation found the bells hanging in a tree. Clergy and laity > occasional;ly squabbled over who repaired ropes & belfries. > > I never saw a limit on the number of bells. > > Tom Izbicki > ------------------------------ > *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious > culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of David Critchley > <[log in to unmask]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 6, 2018 7:01:45 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [M-R] numbers of bells > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > John Harvey, *Mediaeval Craftsmen* (1975), pp. 90-91, deals with bell > founders. "By the opening of the fourteenth century Walter of Odington, > monk of Evesham and musical theoretician, had devised a system for making > each bell in a peal weigh 8/9ths of the next larger bell." Does that imply > that the ideal peal consisted of 9 bells? The issue is obviously linked > with the origins of change-ringing, but prima facie all the English > churches which enlarged their belfries over the 14th-16th centuries did so > to accommodate a larger number of bells, and the most obvious reason for > wanting more bells is that it enables more adventurous change-ringing. > > David J. Critchley > > On 06/02/2018 11:29, Gordon Plumb wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Like Rosemany I must confess to having never heard of this limitation. Can > anyone please give chapter and verse in Canon Law for this? It seems on the > face of it very odd! > > Gordon Plumb > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan > <[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]> > To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]> > <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Tue, Feb 6, 2018 10:43 am > Subject: Re: [M-R] numbers of bells > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Does it say anything about the status of the church? Is there anything > those with more bells have in common? Are they prebendal churches, the > head church of a deanery/archdeaconry, collegiate churches, churches with > lots of chantries? Or is it random? > > Have to admit I didn't know you were only allowed 3. If three, three of > what kind? Fixed? Presumably, there was no limit on the sort of hand > bells that are rung at the consecration - or was there? > > Rosemary Hayes > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anne Willis <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Monday, February 05, 2018 10:59 PM > *Subject:* Re: [M-R] numbers of bells > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > No, I don’t think there would be ‘bells in reserve’ as it were. The > Edwardian Inventories were taken to clarify the state of church goods, and > if a church had seven bells, they would have said so. > > > > Having said that ‘bells [in the steeple] to be rongen with oone accorde’ > (a comment on several Shropshire churches in 1549) were not the only bells > in the church. There would often be a Sanctus bell, which might be with > the other bells in the tower, or in a bellcote over the chancel by itself. > (Keevil, Wiltshire has a good example of this. See http://places.wishful- > thinking.org.uk/WIL/Keevil/StLeonard.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplaces.wishful-thinking.org.uk%2FWIL%2FKeevil%2FStLeonard.html&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7C5db4b8f133a5454ad0ca08d56d5ab93e%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636535158789329294&sdata=hWOU%2F6wxBHeCYWTa9j5wWmqeiMA0gggQTnX0OKhGkTw%3D&reserved=0> > where the bellcote is between the chancel and the nave and seems to be > trying to hide behind a leaf.). > > There might also be ‘ a sacryng belle’ and/or a ‘corse belle’ which would > be handbells to ring during Mass or before a burial (I assume. Correct me > if I am wrong). These may be the same as the ‘lyttel bellis’, that are > sometimes mentioned. In the Shropshire inventories there is also the > occasional clock bell. > > > > Abdon, Shropshire had ‘nine bells on a wheel’. John Aubrey describes some > I think at Kington St Michael, Wiltshire. These were small bells which > were shaken at some point during a Mass. > > > > Anne > > *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious > culture [mailto:[log in to unmask] > <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *David Winter > *Sent:* 05 February 2018 18:31 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [M-R] numbers of bells > > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Also a guess, but is there a distinction between ownership and use? Could > you have 7 bells so long as you only used 3 or fewer at any given time? > > > > David R. Winter > > Associate Professor and Chair, > > Department of History, > > Brandon University > > 270 18th St., > <https://maps.google.com/?q=270+18th+St.,%0D+%0D+%0D+Brandon,+Manitoba,%0D+%0D+%0D+Canada,+R7A+6A9&entry=gmail&source=g> > > Brandon, Manitoba, > <https://maps.google.com/?q=270+18th+St.,%0D+%0D+%0D+Brandon,+Manitoba,%0D+%0D+%0D+Canada,+R7A+6A9&entry=gmail&source=g> > > Canada, R7A 6A9 > <https://maps.google.com/?q=270+18th+St.,%0D+%0D+%0D+Brandon,+Manitoba,%0D+%0D+%0D+Canada,+R7A+6A9&entry=gmail&source=g> > > > > phone: (001) 204-720-1435 > > fax: (001) 204-726-0473 > > > > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.brandonu.ca%2Fwinterd&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7C5db4b8f133a5454ad0ca08d56d5ab93e%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636535158789329294&sdata=Rr0iIEZtWXsGT%2FSU%2F%2FY5GhfWyoIHJ%2FhlG6uStR%2BHHGo%3D&reserved=0> > http://people.brandonu.ca/winterd > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.brandonu.ca%2Fwinterd&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7C5db4b8f133a5454ad0ca08d56d5ab93e%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636535158789329294&sdata=Rr0iIEZtWXsGT%2FSU%2F%2FY5GhfWyoIHJ%2FhlG6uStR%2BHHGo%3D&reserved=0> > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious > culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Jane Stemp > Wickenden [[log in to unmask]] > *Sent:* 05 February 2018 11:51 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [M-R] numbers of bells > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > This is a wild guess (my knowledge of bells is post-Stedman) but could > bells specially donated for a soul's sake / chantry bells have been > excluded from the rule? > > Jane > > On 5 February 2018 16:55:58 GMT+00:00, Anne Willis <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Does anyone know of any reason why parish churches in England exceeded the > three bells permitted under Canon Law? > > > > If you look at the Edwardian surveys for a county a number of churches > will have four or five bells in their towers, though the majority will have > one to three. > > > > The five bell towers in Wiltshire, and probably Shropshire, can be > attributed to various local conditions, but how did the parish get away > with it? It was cathedrals who were allowed five or more bells. > > > > And was there any particular reason for having four bells? > > > > Anne > > > > > > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jiscmail.ac.uk%2Fmedieval-religion&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7C5db4b8f133a5454ad0ca08d56d5ab93e%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636535158789329294&sdata=NfAKhUDXsVYw%2B1XF2MORPAaCcS9JKRpbXIBswdMwF%2FM%3D&reserved=0> > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. 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Critchley, 46 Station Road, Winslow, Buckingham, MK18 3EH > <https://maps.google.com/?q=46+Station+Road,+Winslow,+Buckingham,+MK18+3EH&entry=gmail&source=g> > Tel. 01296 715276 / 07967 473508 > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jiscmail.ac.uk%2Fmedieval-religion&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7C5db4b8f133a5454ad0ca08d56d5ab93e%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636535158789329294&sdata=NfAKhUDXsVYw%2B1XF2MORPAaCcS9JKRpbXIBswdMwF%2FM%3D&reserved=0> > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion -- John Shinners Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies Emeritus Saint Mary's College Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 Phone: 574-284-4534 Fax: 284-4855 www.saintmarys.edu/~hust "Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141) ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion