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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Many thanks, Renata and others. What I'd particularly like to find out is whether the custom of using clappers in Lent appears elsewhere in the medieval period - I don't want to assume post-Tridentine practice reflects what happened before the Reformation . Maddy --- Prof. Madeleine Gray University of South Wales http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim 'Lle taw Duw nid doeth yngan' (St Fagan, allegedly) On 09/02/2018 09:39, Renata Modráková wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Dear Maddy, > > this custom is very popular in villages in the Czech and Slovac Republics. I copy to you some short information from Wikipedia: > > * In the Czech Republic [1] and Slovakia [2], the day is called _Zelený čtvrtek_ or _Zelený štvrtok_ respectively, again meaning "Green Thursday". It is because the typical meals of this day were made of fresh, green vegetables etc. From that day there is no usage of the church bells [3] until Holy Saturday [4], here called "White Saturday", because "they have flown to Rome [5]" (a euphemism), in some regions they are replaced by groups of children walking round their village (or around the church) and making noise with wooden rattles. This is to announce to the people approaching beginning of the liturgy and call the people to the church. > > We meet information about this custom in many modern and early modern written and printed originals because because of a high popularity of this custom. When I was younger, I met these groups, but nowadays it is on retreat, just local in smaller villages. Nobody meet them in bigger cities or in Prague or Bratislava. > > If you would like more information, I could give you a contact/name to my colleague here in Czech Republic, who is the main specialist for customs in medieval times here in Czech Republic. > > With best regards from Prague > > PhDr. Renáta Modráková > Manuscript Specialist > National Library of the Czech Republic > > 2018-02-09 10:15 GMT+01:00 Madeleine Gray <[log in to unmask]>: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > I'm intrigued by the reference in Arnold and Goodson's article to the use of clappers instead of bells in Holy Week. Jeremy Harte of the Epsom & Ewell Museum says this is still a custom in Europe: clappers instead of bells are used during Lent. Children have traditionally imitated this with clappers of their own. He wonders whether this has any connection with the C19 Welsh custom of children performing with clappers during Lent - is it (like some other folk traditions) a survival of medieval practice but divorced from its meaning? > > Has anyone else come across medieval examples of clappers being used instead of bells in Lent, or of children's rituals associated with them? > > Maddy > > --- > Prof. Madeleine Gray > University of South Wales > http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk [6] > http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim [7] > 'Lle taw Duw nid doeth yngan' (St Fagan, allegedly) > > On 06/02/2018 15:03, John Shinners wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > John H. Arnold and Caroline Goodson have an informative article, "Resounding Community: the History and Meaning of Medieval Church Bells," in _Viator _43 No. 1 (2012) 99-130, which is available online as a pdf in several places, for instance at Academia.edu (!). It answers some of the questions raised in this thread but not the mention a restriction on the number of bells. It does mention that three was a recommended minimum, at least according to John Pecham's statues from c. 1279 or so: "tintinnabulo [for the Consecration, etc. I assume]," "campane manuales pro mortuis," and "campane in campanile et corde ad easdem." > > http://www.academia.edu/1431766/with_John_Arnold_Resounding_Community_The_History_and_Meaning_of_Medieval_Church_Bells_Viator_43.1_January_2012_99_130 [8] > > And I share Gordon's praise for Tom's book on the Eucharist in Canon Law. It's a goldmine. > > Best, > John > > -- > > John Shinners > Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies Emeritus > Saint Mary's College > Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 > Phone: 574-284-4534 > Fax: 284-4855 > www.saintmarys.edu/~hust [9] > > "Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141) ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion [10] ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion [10] -- PhDr. Renáta Modráková Manuscripts Specialist Department of Manuscript and Early Printed Books National Library of the Czech Republic [log in to unmask] / [log in to unmask] @renatamodrakova ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion Links: ------ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_bell [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Saturday [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome [6] http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk [7] http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim [8] http://www.academia.edu/1431766/with_John_Arnold_Resounding_Community_The_History_and_Meaning_of_Medieval_Church_Bells_Viator_43.1_January_2012_99_130 [9] http://www.saintmarys.edu/~hust [10] http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion