Try as one might there’s no getting away from meaning! Unless perhaps
you’re Kurt Schwitters, but then you’ll be channelling cosmic babble from Ursa
Major.
Poems generally want to play with meanings. Of course pigments and notes
don’t (except perhaps to a synaesthetic) signify anything in themselves, and
words do, so that’s also part, if you like, of the palette of language as
medium. But then colours, notes, and words when combined in particular ways
begin to signify differently, and make meanings as well as patterns. Poetry is
often the most pattern-making of the verbal arts. Unlike painting and
music, only poetry can be paraphrased (because it operates in the same medium)
but the futility of paraphrasing any good poem helps us see it has an oblique or
estranging or transforming attitude towards the received meanings and perhaps
ideologies embedded in words. Pure or impure that’s one reason why it’s an
art.
(This isn’t an attempt at aesthetic philosophy, just a few notes.)
Jamie
From: [log in to unmask]" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1516730063029_77766" title-off="">GILES GOODLAND
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:47 PM
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Subject: Re: Rebecca Watts
Yes, I always thought somehow 'pure'
poetry was impossible (apart from rarefied forms such as 'sound poetry' or
concrete poetry. Or the extremes of aestheticism. It is impossible to read a
poem without taking account of the meaning, and mapping that onto the world. It
always seems messily entangled with beliefs and disagreements we may have. This
with a lingering belief from my student days that poetry should be engaged since all
language is ideological. Language always has a position.
Hi Giles, I guess you’re using
‘pure’ in the way we might distinguish ‘pure’ from ‘applied’ maths – here with
no other end but itself in view?
Just for one, I would consider poetry an art in the very same way as I
would consider painting and music, and make no distinction at all (on this level
of aesthetic ‘purity’) between them.
Jamie
From: [log in to unmask]" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" title-off="">GILES GOODLAND
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Rebecca Watts
Many political (left)
avant garde poets see (or profess to see) their poetry as an instrument of
change. Hence not a pure art form. But the whole 'purify the language' idea is
also instrumental. In fact I suspect few poets see poetry as a pure art form in
the way they might see music or painting.
Tim Allan
wrote:
I have
always considered poetry to be an artform and if anything my problem in the past
has been with people who did not see it as an 'artform' as such but as something
essentially else - a therapy, a means of communication etc. So of course
avant-garde poetry (or whatever term you want to use) is an artform. I don't see
what the problem is. If any avant poets do not consider it an artform I really
would like to know what they think it is.