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Don’t worry, Luke! It’s not like I’m personally offended. I never signed up to either camp. You don’t sound stupid, though I think the prejudice mostly is, albeit held tenaciously enough by a number of otherwise intelligent people. I also think others’ as well as Robert ‘s model for the term is outdated. Apart from his restrictive and excluding lineage from the modernists, the idea of the ‘commercial’ poetry presses being a distinct entity doesn’t make much sense now. Hardly any poetry is reviewed nowadays, and there’s more likelihood of an appreciative essay if you belong within the academic circle of the avant-garde. The literary establishment is a spectral fiction, though It wasn’t always thus. If you judge by the recipients of the major prizes over the last five years I’d say there’s been a very discernible switch from an established old guard. About time perhaps? Jamie > On 19 Jan 2018, at 20:51, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Sorry if I offended you with the comment about "mainstream" poetry. I just hope I don't seem too stupid, it's probably something about 'underground' pop music. > > Cheers, > Luke >>