Peter, from the way you explain it, I was probably too keen to call Olson an academic—in the sense that he and Black Mountain University were recognised within the wider academy as being “credibly academic”. I based my view on the way that he is now seen within academia — at least among academics who see themselves as “nurturers” of emerging avantgarde “poet-students” etc. 

But I still think Tim’s article has some merit, despite my shifting the discussion away from it and on to Olsen. Whether one can categorise the sort of poetry written and supported by academics and students, who see themselves as writing “avantgarde poetry”, as really being “academic poetry”, there is, at least from what Tim said in his article, a lot of activity, within recognised academic institutions that run creative writing courses, aimed at “promoting” students and, in some cases, staff as well. 

I think this discussion has skirted around this main issue, by focusing too much on whether any particular poetry, poet or academic can be legitimately categorised as being academic or not. I’m to blame for this, too, by starting my exchange with Jamie. 

I wonder where Tim has gone?