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I think this correspondence about camels does raise a very interesting question about the nature of the zooarchaeological record. In zooarchaeology 'common' is a very relative term (even more so than in real life). Camels may have been common, but they were much less so than cattle or sheep. For one camel there may have been tens of thousands of sheep and cattle. I am not surprised that thousands of camels may be archaeological invisible, as only a small fraction of the millions of traditional domestic livestock is archaeologically known. Therefore, I believe that the answer to the question whether camels were common in Roman Europe is 'it depends'! There is probably a stronger argument in suggesting that camels were less common in Roman Britain than in other parts of the Western Empire - I think the evidence is convincing for that. I also have a more specific question. Since 1991 I have in vain looked for some concrete evidence of the reality of this Greenwich camel specimen/s, which keeps being mentioned in the literature (though now it is the first time I hear is represented by teeth). They all seem to be secondary references though. Where is the specimen? What is the publication of the site and assemblage where it was allegedly found? I never managed to get to the bottom of this question despite extensive research. If anybody can help I'd be very grateful. By the way the paper below does not mention the important review of camels found in Italy published by Jacopo De Grossi, which can be found on his academia.edu page https://www.academia.edu/1050546/Cammelli_nellantichit%C3%A0_le_presenze_in_Italia, or the equally importnat review of camels in Iberia published in Antiquity by Morales, Riquelme and Liesau, see https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285363721_Dromedaries_in_antiquity_Iberia_and_beyond . Cheers, Umberto On 20 November 2017 at 09:29, Lee Broderick <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I agree with Sonja - we've excavated a large number of Roman road-side > settlements and ditches in Britain and we still only have the one camel > identified from this period (the one mentioned in the article) which, I'd > argue, is far from 'spotty yet telling osteological remains from ... > Britain'. No doubt differential disposal may play a part but the evidence > at this point would suggest that camels were far from ever being common in > Roman Britain. > > Best regards, > > Lee G. Broderick, MSc, MA, FZS. > Zooarchaeologist > Oxford Archaeology Ltd. > +44 (0)1865 980775 > www.oxfordarchaeology.com > > This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely > for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you > have received this email in error, please notify > [log in to unmask] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ZOOARCH automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Monday, 20 November, 2017 12:01:15 AM > Subject: ZOOARCH Digest - 17 Nov 2017 to 19 Nov 2017 (#2017-261) > > There are 2 messages totaling 1147 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Fw: NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > 2. Fw: NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:50:10 +0000 > From: Laszlo Bartosiewicz <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Fw: NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > Dear Carl, > > > Many thanks, this is a very useful suggestion. The problem with camel > remains may be taphonomic: unless they were eaten, their bones may not have > been deposited in ordinary settlement refuse but at less investigated > places (e.g.roadside and battlefields). In Hungary, thousands of camels are > mentioned in reliable Ottoman Period records, but finds are still sporadic. > Why should it be different for the time of Roman occupation? > > > Good luck: Laszlo > > ________________________________ > From: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites < > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of [log in to unmask] < > [log in to unmask]> > Sent: 17 November 2017 21:12 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [ZOOARCH] Fw: NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > This will be of interest to some on this listserv. Please forgive any > cross-postings. > > Carl Berkowitz > > > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 3:02 PM > Subject: [agade] NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > From <https://www.forbes.com/sites/drsarahbond/2017/11/17/were- > there-camels-in-roman-britain-new-evidence-suggests-camels- > were-common-across-the-empire/>: > =============================== > > Were There Camels in Roman Britain? New Evidence Suggests Camels Were > Common Across The Empire > Sarah Bond > > Were there camels in Roman Britain? Archaeological evidence indicates > that camels were used across the Roman empire well into the early > medieval period. As historian Caitlin Green suggests, this includes > the island province of Britannia. > > In Roman antiquity, the camelus (from the Greek word κάμηλος) could > come with one hump or two. The single humped camel is commonly called > a dromedary. The dromedary was usually from the Arabian Peninsula and > the African steppe regions. The two-humped camel was the Bactrian > camel (Camelus bactrianus), which generally hailed from the colder > desert regions of Asia. There is strong evidence to support the > hybridization of these two types as early as the first millennium BCE, > which produced a sturdier one-humped animal that could carry about 100 > kg more per day. > > Camels were commonly known to be used in North Africa, Egypt, and many > parts of the ancient Near East. They were highly integral to the > incense trade in particular. The elder Pliny (NH 12.32) noted that > frankincense had to go through Sabota—Shabwa, capital city of the > South Arabian kingdom called Ḥaḍramawt—on camels, and pass through a > single gate. Bactrians could carry 220-270 kg between 30-40 km a day, > though the ancient historian Diodorus Siculus (2.54.6) suggests over > 400 kg. These Bactrian camels were particularly good for carrying > freight along the Silk Road in caravans from China in the winter, for > instance, but did not do well in heat. They gave hair and milk to > traders in addition to their caravan services, but faunal remains > would suggest they were not usually eaten along the Silk Road. > > From the Hellenistic to the Roman period, dromedaries were used to > carry not only freight, but also mail along roads often protected by a > police force; this was a camel mail service model inspired by the > earlier Persian Empire. A number of overland trade routes stemming > from the Red Sea ports used these pack animals to transport freight to > the East, in order to connect to the Nile. > > Writing in the Augustan era, the geographer Strabo noted that it was > the king Ptolemy Philadelphus who had opened up a route to Berenice, > so that traders and camels could travel along it. This was done > because the Red Sea was itself often unpredictable and difficult to > navigate. Berenice and Myos Hormos were the most important of the Red > Sea ports, and merchants often used camels to travel to and from > Coptos. Thus camels were a pivotal transport link between the Nile > region and the Red Sea. Remains of an enclosure near the port at Myos > Hormos indicate camels may have been kept there before embarking on > the journey to Coptos. Yet osteological evidence for camels within the > empire has now expanded our view of these animals to include an area > far beyond just the Red Sea region. > > Sites with Roman-era camel remains in Europe. Image: C. R. Green, > based on a map of the Roman Empire in the early second century AD by > Tataryn/Wikimedia Commons, with the empire depicted in red and its > clients during the reign of Trajan in pink; click here for a larger > version of this image. The distribution of finds of camel remains in > Europe is based on Pigière & Henrotay 2012, Tomczyk 2016, Bartosiewicz > & Dirjec 2001, Daróczi-Szabó et al 2014, Albarella et al 1993, > Maenchen-Helfen 1973, Moreno-García et al 2007, Vuković-Bogdanović & > Blažić 2014, and Vuković & Bogdanović 2013. > > In a new blog post by Dr. Caitlin Green, the historian explores the > prevalence of camels across the Roman Mediterranean, based on a number > of camel remains excavated in areas such as Spain, Italy, France, > Germany, Austria, Hungary, Slovenia and the Balkans. As she notes, the > remains are dated to between the first and fifth centuries CE, with > many coming from the third century or later. Moreover, Dr. Green > remarks on the variant use of different types of camels across the > empire: "Recent surveys by both Pigière & Henrotay and Tomczyk > indicate that, where identification is possible, the evidence points > to dromedaries or Arabian camels being dominant in the western half of > Roman Europe whilst Bactrian camels were mainly found in the east, > although the split was not absolute—for example, a near-complete > skeleton of a Bactrian camel is known from a Roman urban context at > Saintes, France, and dromedary remains have been recovered from > Kompolt-Kistér, Hungary." > > These camels were often used for transport and even for military > service, but as Dr. Green points to, could also be used for food and > for shows within the amphitheater. Camel teeth found at Greenwich > Park, near the ancient city of Londinium (now London), likely come > from a temple complex that sat along a busy Roman road. This may > suggest some association between camels and higher-status sites in the > West. In terms of cost, camels are listed in the Price Edict of > Diocletian. This early fourth century price control law provides > insight into the argument between using camels versus a wagon. Camels > were about 20% cheaper in many areas, but could only carry around > around 200 kg. Comparatively, wagons in the later empire could carry > over twice as much, 392 kg. > > Considering the spotty yet telling osteological remains of camels > found across the Roman empire and in Britain, Green concludes the > following : "All told, the finds from Greenwich thus seem to fit into > the general pattern of Roman-era finds of camel remains across Europe, > and there consequently seems little reason not to interpret them in a > similar manner, that is to say as evidence of the presence and use of > Roman camels, probably primarily as pack animals/beasts of burden. > Certainly, if the Romans were willing to transport elephants across > the Channel, as they may well have done, then there seems little > reason to think that they wouldn't have done the same with camels, > particularly given that camels were apparently being fairly widely > employed elsewhere in north-western Europe then." > > Clearly, our long-held belief that camels were an animal isolated to > use in Egypt, Arabia and other parts of the Near East during the Roman > period deserves a dromed-ic revision. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Sarah E. Bond is an Assistant Professor of Classics at the University > of Iowa. For more on ancient and medieval history, follow her > @SarahEBond. > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 00:20:21 +0100 > From: Sonja Vukovic <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Fw: NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > Dear Carl, > > Thank you for forwarding those interesting observations. Although, I agree > with Laszlo that taphonomic loss should be taken into consideration, I > believe, taking into account the amount of known/published faunal > assemblages from Roman Britain, that the camels actually were less common > and to a lesser extent introduced in Roman Britain then in other parts of > the Empire. There are many non - eaten animals, such as pets, cats and > dogs, in Roman faunal assemblages. So, I would rather ask Why (the camels > were less common in Roman Britain) than Where (are the camels). > > Best, > > Sonja. > > On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Laszlo Bartosiewicz < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Dear Carl, > > > > > > Many thanks, this is a very useful suggestion. The problem with camel > > remains may be taphonomic: unless they were eaten, their bones may not > have > > been deposited in ordinary settlement refuse but at less investigated > > places (e.g.roadside and battlefields). In Hungary, thousands of camels > are > > mentioned in reliable Ottoman Period records, but finds are still > sporadic. > > Why should it be different for the time of Roman occupation? > > > > > > Good luck: Laszlo > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites < > > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of [log in to unmask] < > > [log in to unmask]> > > *Sent:* 17 November 2017 21:12 > > *To:* [log in to unmask] > > *Subject:* [ZOOARCH] Fw: NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > > > This will be of interest to some on this listserv. Please forgive any > > cross-postings. > > > > Carl Berkowitz > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2017 3:02 PM > > *Subject:* [agade] NEWS: Camels in Roman Britain? > > > > From <https://www.forbes.com/sites/drsarahbond/2017/11/17/were- > > there-camels-in-roman-britain-new-evidence-suggests-camels- > > were-common-across-the-empire/>: > > =============================== > > > > Were There Camels in Roman Britain? New Evidence Suggests Camels Were > > Common Across The Empire > > Sarah Bond > > > > Were there camels in Roman Britain? Archaeological evidence indicates > > that camels were used across the Roman empire well into the early > > medieval period. As historian Caitlin Green suggests, this includes > > the island province of Britannia. > > > > In Roman antiquity, the camelus (from the Greek word κάμηλος) could > > come with one hump or two. The single humped camel is commonly called > > a dromedary. The dromedary was usually from the Arabian Peninsula and > > the African steppe regions. The two-humped camel was the Bactrian > > camel (Camelus bactrianus), which generally hailed from the colder > > desert regions of Asia. There is strong evidence to support the > > hybridization of these two types as early as the first millennium BCE, > > which produced a sturdier one-humped animal that could carry about 100 > > kg more per day. > > > > Camels were commonly known to be used in North Africa, Egypt, and many > > parts of the ancient Near East. They were highly integral to the > > incense trade in particular. The elder Pliny (NH 12.32) noted that > > frankincense had to go through Sabota—Shabwa, capital city of the > > South Arabian kingdom called Ḥaḍramawt—on camels, and pass through a > > single gate. Bactrians could carry 220-270 kg between 30-40 km a day, > > though the ancient historian Diodorus Siculus (2.54.6) suggests over > > 400 kg. These Bactrian camels were particularly good for carrying > > freight along the Silk Road in caravans from China in the winter, for > > instance, but did not do well in heat. They gave hair and milk to > > traders in addition to their caravan services, but faunal remains > > would suggest they were not usually eaten along the Silk Road. > > > > From the Hellenistic to the Roman period, dromedaries were used to > > carry not only freight, but also mail along roads often protected by a > > police force; this was a camel mail service model inspired by the > > earlier Persian Empire. A number of overland trade routes stemming > > from the Red Sea ports used these pack animals to transport freight to > > the East, in order to connect to the Nile. > > > > Writing in the Augustan era, the geographer Strabo noted that it was > > the king Ptolemy Philadelphus who had opened up a route to Berenice, > > so that traders and camels could travel along it. This was done > > because the Red Sea was itself often unpredictable and difficult to > > navigate. Berenice and Myos Hormos were the most important of the Red > > Sea ports, and merchants often used camels to travel to and from > > Coptos. Thus camels were a pivotal transport link between the Nile > > region and the Red Sea. Remains of an enclosure near the port at Myos > > Hormos indicate camels may have been kept there before embarking on > > the journey to Coptos. Yet osteological evidence for camels within the > > empire has now expanded our view of these animals to include an area > > far beyond just the Red Sea region. > > > > Sites with Roman-era camel remains in Europe. Image: C. R. Green, > > based on a map of the Roman Empire in the early second century AD by > > Tataryn/Wikimedia Commons, with the empire depicted in red and its > > clients during the reign of Trajan in pink; click here for a larger > > version of this image. The distribution of finds of camel remains in > > Europe is based on Pigière & Henrotay 2012, Tomczyk 2016, Bartosiewicz > > & Dirjec 2001, Daróczi-Szabó et al 2014, Albarella et al 1993, > > Maenchen-Helfen 1973, Moreno-García et al 2007, Vuković-Bogdanović & > > Blažić 2014, and Vuković & Bogdanović 2013. > > > > In a new blog post by Dr. Caitlin Green, the historian explores the > > prevalence of camels across the Roman Mediterranean, based on a number > > of camel remains excavated in areas such as Spain, Italy, France, > > Germany, Austria, Hungary, Slovenia and the Balkans. As she notes, the > > remains are dated to between the first and fifth centuries CE, with > > many coming from the third century or later. Moreover, Dr. Green > > remarks on the variant use of different types of camels across the > > empire: "Recent surveys by both Pigière & Henrotay and Tomczyk > > indicate that, where identification is possible, the evidence points > > to dromedaries or Arabian camels being dominant in the western half of > > Roman Europe whilst Bactrian camels were mainly found in the east, > > although the split was not absolute—for example, a near-complete > > skeleton of a Bactrian camel is known from a Roman urban context at > > Saintes, France, and dromedary remains have been recovered from > > Kompolt-Kistér, Hungary." > > > > These camels were often used for transport and even for military > > service, but as Dr. Green points to, could also be used for food and > > for shows within the amphitheater. Camel teeth found at Greenwich > > Park, near the ancient city of Londinium (now London), likely come > > from a temple complex that sat along a busy Roman road. This may > > suggest some association between camels and higher-status sites in the > > West. In terms of cost, camels are listed in the Price Edict of > > Diocletian. This early fourth century price control law provides > > insight into the argument between using camels versus a wagon. Camels > > were about 20% cheaper in many areas, but could only carry around > > around 200 kg. Comparatively, wagons in the later empire could carry > > over twice as much, 392 kg. > > > > Considering the spotty yet telling osteological remains of camels > > found across the Roman empire and in Britain, Green concludes the > > following : "All told, the finds from Greenwich thus seem to fit into > > the general pattern of Roman-era finds of camel remains across Europe, > > and there consequently seems little reason not to interpret them in a > > similar manner, that is to say as evidence of the presence and use of > > Roman camels, probably primarily as pack animals/beasts of burden. > > Certainly, if the Romans were willing to transport elephants across > > the Channel, as they may well have done, then there seems little > > reason to think that they wouldn't have done the same with camels, > > particularly given that camels were apparently being fairly widely > > employed elsewhere in north-western Europe then." > > > > Clearly, our long-held belief that camels were an animal isolated to > > use in Egypt, Arabia and other parts of the Near East during the Roman > > period deserves a dromed-ic revision. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sarah E. Bond is an Assistant Professor of Classics at the University > > of Iowa. For more on ancient and medieval history, follow her > > @SarahEBond. > > > > > > > > > -- > Sonja Vuković - Bogdanovic, PhD > Assistant Professor > Laboratory for bioarchaeology, Archaeology Department > Faculty of Philosophy > University of Belgrade > Serbia > www.bioarchlab.org > > ------------------------------ > > End of ZOOARCH Digest - 17 Nov 2017 to 19 Nov 2017 (#2017-261) > ************************************************************** > > > This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net > -- Umberto Albarella Head of Postgraduate Taught Programmes Department of Archaeology University of Sheffield Minalloy House 10-16 Regent Street Sheffield S1 3NJ United Kingdom Telephone: (+) 44 (0) 114 22 22 943 Fax: (+) 44 (0) 114 22 25 109 http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/archaeology/people/albarella For MSc in Osteoarchaeology see: https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/archaeology/postgraduate_taught/msc_osteoarchaeology For Zooarchaeology short courses see: http://www.shef.ac.uk/archaeology/research/zooarchaeology-lab/short-course Oxford Handbook of Zooarchaeology: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-zooarchaeology-9780199686476?cc=gb&lang=en "A basic principle of modern state capitalism is that cost and risk are socialized, while profit is privatized" Noam Chomsky