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Dear Andrew, Thanks, some interesting points here. As you say, 'passing' can be a major issue for some, for others not so much at all (Conchita Wurst?).....the whole area has many ramifications and intetrlinks to other areas - my 'personal' story was just meant to illustrate how far such subject links might go,even into religious affiliations and no doubt many other areas. I certrainly don't want to reinforce any gender norms - in fact what is (slight tangent here) male/female clothing, when, if you could line up every male who has ever lived in history, most of them would be wearing what is stereotypically non-male dress 9kaftans, skirts, tunics, kilts, etc etc) Of course we can't judge Bath Spa ethics committe remotely and from the outside, but then the original Times article has two serious,mimplications for us crit geographers. Either 1) The press is getting in and unjustifiably pillorying academic ethics committees, or 2) What looks (to me) like extremely intersting research that could considerably boost the life quality of 'transgender-people' (hope this is the correct term, no offence intended if not) is not being done because of (wrong) fears of prejudice. Either way, it would be a shame if this story just faded away with no debate. Dr Hillary J. Shaw Director and Senior Research Consultant Shaw Food Solutions Newport Shropshire TF10 8QE www.fooddeserts.org -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Dwyer <[log in to unmask]> To: hillshaw <[log in to unmask]>; CRIT-GEOG-FORUM <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Mon, Sep 25, 2017 10:00 am Subject: Re: Ethical issue re Transgender research, Bath Spa University (better link here) Dear Hillary, Thanks for sharing another article. Without the full details of the submission to the ethics committee, I’m sure it’s almost impossible to pass judgement on the quality of the submission and the guidelines to ensure that any participants are not harmed by the proposed research. What I do find concerning, however, is your need to share the ‘story’ of someone you know to justify your point(?). Without just doing this – you then continue to talk of this person in terms of being able to ‘pass’ (in your words: “I never guessed they weren't born as a female, you would never have guessed from talking to them/looking at them”). It is extremely problematic to talk and practice behaviour in this way – as it reinforces certain gender norms – and is something that I did not want to pass by on this forum as acceptable to say (though it is an everyday condition of trans lives). The practice of being able to ‘pass’ can be extremely damaging to some trans individuals, and needs to be a consideration. This sort of positioning shows the complexities of researching(!) trans communities – and the Times article (which I have since read) seems to be more clickbait-esque than anything else. Many thanks (and I hope you see this as me just pointing out the complexities of the issue – and to practice better as ‘critical’ geographers), Andrew Things like this article explain some of the issues:https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/wd7enm/passing-when-youre-transgender From: A forum for critical and radical geographers <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Hillary Shaw <[log in to unmask]> Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Saturday, 23 September 2017 at 19:37 To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Fwd: Ethical issue re Transgender research, Bath Spa University (better link here) In today's Times newspaper - unfortunately the rest of the article is only accessible if you have a subscription (and the story doesn't appear elsewhere yet), It is in the physical copy of The Times today if you have it in the library). https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/university-of-bath-bars-research-into-transgender-surgery-regrets-ddxxlbfzh Bath Spa University ethics committee has blocked research into whether transgender people have regrets about their gender transition after the op because this might be seen as transphobic. The opposite view, that this research should have been given the green light, is, such research could be valuable to society, and even to those considering transgender surgery reassignation themselves. Better to know any potential drawbacks before the surgery than after it? I know of one male to female transgender person, who subsequently joined a Christian group, and then felt, basically, 'I'm not as God intended me to be' and felt duty-bound to return to being a male - but then felt they had to move to a congregation of this group elsewhere in the UK as they were embarrassed being a man where they had been known as a woman. Having known this person myself, until they 'inexplicably vanished' from the town I knew them in, I never guessed they weren't born as a female, you would never have guessed from talking to them/looking at them. What does the rest of the list think here? (a brief timeline on some moral issues here http://fooddeserts.org/images/000MoralsFashion.htm Dr Hillary J. Shaw Director and Senior Research Consultant Shaw Food Solutions Newport Shropshire TF10 8QE www.fooddeserts.org