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The other thing being that University work, at least before a PhD, really just seems to be about demonstrating understanding (rather than innovation etc.). Just, how do you do that when no understanding is imparted? By conforming as much as possible to everything "that works". On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > This is the legacy of Conquest > > Don Paterson's list does sound quite depressing. What about the creative > writing syllabuses? My bug with what I'm sitting is that there's no > discussion of what makes any / a poem a success or failure. Let alone > trying to emulate those qualities. We only discuss "what works", in our > work or in a poem. > > Luke > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Peter Riley <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> >> On 24 Sep 2017, at 10:58 am, [log in to unmask] < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> I'm unconvinced that such supine audiences still exist. Most people, if >> they like modern poetry at all, tend to be pretty passionate about it, and >> not likely to take anthologies as authoritative. >> >> >> >> I certainly hope so. Anthologies have rarely been anything but a pain. >> The canonical ones— well, who needs a canon? The mapping never covered more >> than a quarter of the globe and if used for navigation risked getting >> caught up in whirlpools. . Probably the anthology I’ve used most was >> Allen's *New American Poetry *of 1960, but after two or three years the >> question was mainly one of finding out who wasn’t in it. A third kind, the >> polemical, which intends to capture a particular shift in the poetry scene, >> is valuable or not according to where you stand. It needs to be explicit. >> Conquest was one of these and did a lot of damage by decimating the >> mainstream and reducing it to a mere slice of itself, which then became >> “what was happening”. *Children of Albion* was one of the worst. >> “People Michael Horowitz met in pubs” as someone said at the time. *A >> Various Art* was a welcome break but as Tony said, grimly insisted on >> the Cambridge belief that you must never under any circumstances explain >> anything. It was salutary for the first generation but wobbly in the >> extension to a few younger poets. Chinese anthologies based on subjects, >> such as daffodils or butterflies, seem a much better idea. >> >> Each evening this week on Radio 3, Don Paterson can be heard “reflecting” >> on “Five Poems I Wish I’d Written.” They are by Seamus Heaney, Elisabeth >> Bishop, Michael Donaghy, Sylvia Plath and Robert Frost. This is the legacy >> of Conquest, the obstinacy of staying on safe ground. Even the >> big-poetry-prize scene is generous and encouraging compared with this, in >> spite of all the show-biz. >> >> >> ;pr >> >> >