Hey Jamie,

Oh OK, I was being overly rhetorical. Just suggesting that WCW's poetry tends to be no worse. I didn't mean to be overly clever, anyway, just stating my facile opinion.

Cheers,
Luke

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Jamie McKendrick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Sorry, Luke, I’ve no idea what you’re saying here. That poems like Larkin’s ‘Aubade’ are ‘ten a penny’? If only.

And ‘Ever read Williams?’ means what? I have read all 3 Williamses (WCW, CKW, and HW) but am not sure of the Larkin connection if you mean the first or the second.

Just asking.

Best,

Jamie

 

From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">Luke

Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 8:52 PM

To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]C.UK

Subject: Re: Philip Larkin any comments?

 

If i wanted to be skeptical, I'd only say that

>  a powerful and exceptional poem.

ten a penny'. Ever read Williams? Yes. But I share in your sympathies with Heaney, I think. Not able to express that, at all.

Apologies,
Luke

 

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Jamie McKendrick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I don’t think this is offered as an overarching definition of prose narrative, Luke, in which little interest is shown. It’s Tim signalling, in list code, a few indicators of baleful mainstream practice.

 

A slightly longer quote could help:

 

“...a type of poetry where the 'opinion' becomes expressed not as an 'opinion', but as a 'message' wrapped up in a quasi narrative or anecdote, framed as an example of an assumed collective 'it's obvious because it makes sense and this is the sense it makes, as demonstrated by this language/prosody' kind of thing...”

 

I wonder if this description might work reasonably well to describe Eliot’s lines, such as

 

    On the Rialto once.

    The rats are underneath the piles.

    The jew is underneath the lot.

 

in ‘Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar’, or earlier from the same poem:

 

    But this or such was Bleistein’s way:

    A saggy bending of the knees

    And elbows, with the palms turned out,

    Chicago Semite Viennese.

 

By contrast we really only learnt of Larkin’s prejudices, interest in porn etc. not from his poems but his letters.

Out of his morose, heavy drinking, increasingly right-wing and prejudiced later period hardly any poetry remains with the exception of ‘Aubade’ which I differ from Heaney in considering a powerful and exceptional poem.

Best,

Jamie

 

 

 

 

Best,

Jamie

 

From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">Luke

Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 6:42 PM

To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]C.UK

Subject: Re: Philip Larkin any comments?

 

>  a 'message' wrapped up in a quasi narrative or anecdote, framed as an example of an assumed collective 'it's obvious because it makes sense and this is the sense it makes, as demonstrated by this language/prosody'

that is an interesting post, thanks. and that's "prose narrative"? amazing.

Cheers,

Luke