Dear Colleagues,Please note that this distinction entails mind-body dualism, which leads to the quite absurd conclusion that consciousness (the mind) can exist independently of physical reality (the brain)."Mind–body dualism, or mind–body duality, is a view in the philosophy of mind that mental phenomena are, in some respects, non-physical, or that the mind and body are distinct and separable"On 23 July 2017 at 11:02, Phyll Buchanan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Thank you all for this thoughtful discussion. I am looking at ways to measure whether frenotomy for babies with tongue tie can improved tongue function sufficiently to enable breastfeeding to start (if expressing) or to continue. One measure would be by using a pain scale.Tom, the abstract you posted describes exactly what we are looking for: "an attempt to construct meaning..."Anticipation of repeated episodes of pain is likely to have a psychological component, in breastfeeding this has been found to increase incidence of depression (don't have reference to hand).PhyllHi all. I previously sent this to Tom (who was early in the thread),I would think that there is very little regular meaning to the numerical value scale (VAS). The absolute value is relative to the patient and the only way that it can be used is to compare before and after levels. However, even the use in this setting is controversial. I propose that we use one question and that should be "do you need more pain medication?"Bet wishesDan Mayer MDOn Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Pennington, Andy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:I've heard that pain scales are now being used in the UK as part of the governments ('callous') mobility assessments to make (invalid) comparisons between people! All part of the cuts agenda.
All the best, Andy.Pain
Never clearly seen, a value determined subjectively depending on identity as well as physical matter which embraces the castration of a subject who does have experiences. Pain is an individual's qualitative phenomenon along a continuum - to divide it by imposing a scale is to misrecognise its continuous nature. If there is no mind-body split - then .... a reduction in positivised pain may well be exchangeable.
No doubt pain can be turned into a calculable commodity and therefore be made useful for science under capitalism. Another question might be is: is science able to recognise at what point is pain pathological - or, is pain 'normal'? Does subjective pain sometimes serve a useful function in terms of an individual's health as a capacity of an individual to react constructively to threats to integrity.
As might be expected there are calls for pain screening in e.g. patients with depression, which makes the attempt to recognise pain as pathological likely to intensify harms to health through overdiagnosis
See:
"Depression and Pain: the need for a new screening tool"
Cocksedge et al
progress in neurology and psychiatry Jan/Feb 2016
No doubt pain can be turned into a calculable commodity and therefore be made useful for science under capitalism. Another question might be is: is science able to recognise any point at which pain is pathological - or, when pain is 'normal'? Does subjective pain sometimes serve a useful function in terms of an individual's health as a capacity of an individual to react constructively to threats to integrity?
Owen
here is a podcast about the "new science of pain" by Moseley. very fascinating. Questions a lot of traditional approaches to pain treatment.
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Howick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear List Members,
Within the context of a trial or systematic review, is change in pain (for example with a visual analog scale): (a) physical outcome, (b) psychological outcome, or (c) both.neither?
I am aware that many causes of pain (such as bumping my head into a low door frame) are purely physical. What I am interested in is whether pain as an outcome measured by a visual analog scale itself is physical, psychological, or both/neither.
I’m specifically interested in what the scientific consensus is or, better, whether there is evidence of some kind that could resolve this.
Thanks in advance,
Jeremy
T: +44 (0)1865 289 258 E: [log in to unmask]
http://www.phc.ox.ac.uk/team/jeremy-howick
Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences, University of Oxford
Radcliffe Primary Care Building, Radcliffe Observatory Quarter, Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6GG--
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