Why is that a bad thing for healthcare?
On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 at 17:23, Alexander Mebius <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Please note that this distinction entails mind-body dualism, which leads
> to the quite absurd conclusion that consciousness (the mind) can exist
> independently of physical reality (the brain).
>
> "Mind–body dualism, or mind–body duality, is a view in the philosophy of
> mind that mental phenomena are, in some respects, non-physical, or that the
> mind and body are distinct and separable"
>
> On 23 July 2017 at 11:02, Phyll Buchanan <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thank you all for this thoughtful discussion. I am looking at ways to
>> measure whether frenotomy for babies with tongue tie can improved tongue
>> function sufficiently to enable breastfeeding to start (if expressing) or
>> to continue. One measure would be by using a pain scale.
>>
>> Tom, the abstract you posted describes exactly what we are looking for: "an
>> attempt to construct meaning..."
>>
>> Anticipation of repeated episodes of pain is likely to have a
>> psychological component, in breastfeeding this has been found to increase
>> incidence of depression (don't have reference to hand).
>>
>> Phyll
>>
>>
>> On 23 Jul 2017, at 02:46, Dan Mayer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all. I previously sent this to Tom (who was early in the thread),
>>
>> I would think that there is very little regular meaning to the numerical
>> value scale (VAS). The absolute value is relative to the patient and the
>> only way that it can be used is to compare before and after levels.
>> However, even the use in this setting is controversial. I propose that we
>> use one question and that should be "do you need more pain medication?"
>>
>> Bet wishes
>>
>> Dan Mayer MD
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Pennington, Andy <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard that pain scales are now being used in the UK as part of the
>>> governments ('callous') mobility assessments to make (invalid) comparisons
>>> between people! All part of the cuts agenda.
>>>
>>> All the best, Andy.
>>>
>>> On 22 Jul 2017, at 07:58, Owen Dempsey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Pain
>>>
>>> Never clearly seen, a value determined subjectively depending on
>>> identity as well as physical matter which embraces the castration of a
>>> subject who does have experiences. Pain is an individual's qualitative
>>> phenomenon along a continuum - to divide it by imposing a scale is to
>>> misrecognise its continuous nature. If there is no mind-body split - then
>>> .... a reduction in positivised pain may well be exchangeable.
>>>
>>>
>>> No doubt pain can be turned into a calculable commodity and therefore be
>>> made useful for science under capitalism. Another question might be is: is
>>> science able to recognise at what point is pain pathological - or, is pain
>>> 'normal'? Does subjective pain sometimes serve a useful function in terms
>>> of an individual's health as a capacity of an individual to react
>>> constructively to threats to integrity.
>>>
>>>
>>> As might be expected there are calls for pain screening in e.g. patients
>>> with depression, which makes the attempt to recognise pain as pathological
>>> likely to intensify harms to health through overdiagnosis
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>> "Depression and Pain: the need for a new screening tool"
>>>
>>> Cocksedge et al
>>>
>>> progress in neurology and psychiatry Jan/Feb 2016
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/pnp.414/asset/pnp414.pdf%3Bjsessionid=7B5BAC57C7B58C6E2E8F8A5B23B9048A.f03t01?v=1&t=j5exmaqp&s=f4cfe59cade471adff3b69e10d123c520b05db3f
>>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 at 07:29, Owen Dempsey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No doubt pain can be turned into a calculable commodity and therefore
>>>> be made useful for science under capitalism. Another question might be is:
>>>> is science able to recognise any point at which pain is pathological - or,
>>>> when pain is 'normal'? Does subjective pain sometimes serve a useful
>>>> function in terms of an individual's health as a capacity of an individual
>>>> to react constructively to threats to integrity?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 at 00:07, Anoop B <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> here is a podcast about the "new science of pain" by Moseley. very
>>>>> fascinating. Questions a lot of traditional approaches to pain treatment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://indaily.com.au/podcasts/2017/03/28/podcast-the-revolution-in-managing-chronic-pain/
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Howick <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear List Members,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Within the context of a trial or systematic review, is change in pain
>>>>>> (for example with a visual analog scale): (a) physical outcome, (b)
>>>>>> psychological outcome, or (c) both.neither?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am aware that many causes of pain (such as bumping my head into a
>>>>>> low door frame) are purely physical. What I am interested in is whether
>>>>>> pain as an outcome measured by a visual analog scale itself is physical,
>>>>>> psychological, or both/neither.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m specifically interested in what the scientific consensus is or,
>>>>>> better, whether there is evidence of some kind that could resolve this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T: +44 (0)1865 289 258 <+44%201865%20289258> E:
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.phc.ox.ac.uk/team/jeremy-howick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences, University of
>>>>>> Oxford
>>>>>> Radcliffe Primary Care Building, Radcliffe Observatory Quarter,
>>>>>> Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6GG
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://myownprivatemedicine.com/
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> https://myownprivatemedicine.com/
>>>
>>
>>
> --
https://myownprivatemedicine.com/
